OP
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- #601
Cool. I am getting a CTH amp for review from a kind member. 
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Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Cool. I've only had it for about a week. Sounds good to me! Especially classical music with big string sections seem like they have more air over my LGV30 or my Dragonfly red. I notice slightly more detail on jazz recordings that I'm very familiar with as well, like "Love Supreme" and "Art Meets the Rhythm Section". If anyone cares I'm listening mostly with Mr Speakers Aeon Closed (a neutral planar magnetic headphone) but also a bit with Earsonics SEM9 (9 BA driver in ear monitors). There is a small amount of hiss on the IEMs.
In the instructions they give you with the CTH it says they sound best after ~50 hours of break in, and that you should leave it on with the volume turned all the way up with music playing through it to achieve this. If the one your getting isn't "broken in" it would be really cool to see how much the output actually changes. For instance there are people on headfi.com claiming a night and day difference after breaking it in. One guy in particular said he was going to take his back because the bass was muddy but after breaking it in the sound completely changed for him.
I've always wondered whether manufacturers exaggerate the effect of break in as a psychological trick. Or I guess not whether, but how much, as it seems to me it is an effective marketing trick whether break in is real or not. If I could convince you your car had a smoother ride after 500 miles, you'd be more satisfied because after 500 miles you would get attached and wouldn't notice how bumpy the ride is. You would also tell yourself, "The ride was smooth before, but now it must be really smooth! And I'm only 300 miles in, so its going to get even smoother!", when in reality you got used to the ride 499 miles in.
In the instructions they give you with the CTH it says they sound best after ~50 hours of break in, and that you should leave it on with the volume turned all the way up with music playing through it to achieve this. If the one your getting isn't "broken in" it would be really cool to see how much the output actually changes. For instance there are people on headfi.com claiming a night and day difference after breaking it in. One guy in particular said he was going to take his back because the bass was muddy but after breaking it in the sound completely changed for him.
I've always wondered whether manufacturers exaggerate the effect of break in as a psychological trick. Or I guess not whether, but how much, as it seems to me it is an effective marketing trick whether break in is real or not. If I could convince you your car had a smoother ride after 500 miles, you'd be more satisfied because after 500 miles you would get attached and wouldn't notice how bumpy the ride is. You would also tell yourself, "The ride was smooth before, but now it must be really smooth! And I'm only 300 miles in, so its going to get even smoother!", when in reality you got used to the ride 499 miles in.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #603
It is all nonsense. If it were not, one of them, out of so many manufacturers, would produce objective measurements before and after.
When I was reviewing the Schiit Yggdrasil I was told it needed to be on overnight to sound right. I measured it before and after and it made no difference whatsoever.
It makes a difference if the recommended burn-in period goes beyond the 'change-your-mind' period.
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I think that for headphone drivers break in / burn in is actually effective since there are moving parts. In the recent video from innerfidelity about Mr Speakers they mention that they run the drivers for 24 or 40 hours (can't remember exactly) because after that period they find that there are no significant changes and driver matching can be done correctly. How audible these differences are, i don't know, but i guess that they are measurable.
On the other hand, for amps, dacs and so on, it's just brain break in.
On the other hand, for amps, dacs and so on, it's just brain break in.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #606
Speaker drivers have also been measured to make a difference after some use. However, once put inside of a speaker enclosure, they make next to no difference.
Wow is that the same size as a Schiit Modi?Just got one of these, there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality over my LGV30's DAC. Slightly better separation is the main thing I've noticed, along with slightly more detail retrieval. I wasn't expecting much improvement so I'm pleasantly surprised.
I'm using it with a Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid amp for a very nice setup that cost a bit less than 500 USD. The D50 is also quite small which is nice.
https://imgur.com/a/GASjTe7
rebbiputzmaker
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Why would putting a driver in an enclosure make any difference when discussing the driver break-in?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #609
It is the difference between a component and system performance. Two bolts may act differently from each other in a "unit" stress test but make no difference to your comfort when used in the car suspension.
Here is Dr. Toole on this topic from his book:
I saw these measurements while at Harman and the difference was tiny.
rebbiputzmaker
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Ok, But it is still a rather general assumption, mechanical break-in of drivers depends on different factors, such as material and age. For example, a 50-year-old drive might act differently from a modern one.
p.s. I like Harry Olson
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #611
It is not an assumption when a major speaker manufacturer actually measures and performs listening tests of the phenomenon. Something that proponents of break-in seemingly are not interested in, or capable of performing the same.
rebbiputzmaker
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Not disagreeing with that at all. Just trying to point out there is alot to speaker engineering, and if one is really interested they should seek out the work of Bell Labs/Western Electric and RCA. I would think Dr. Toole would be much more qualified than I, a mere mortal, to explain their importance.
"It is not clear whether the marketing person was satisfied by the finding."
I'll bet it was clear.
Sorry to keep bringing up the CTH in this thread but thought I'd mention, I came home from work today and powered this thing on... and no sound. The tube is also not glowing anymore.
Would be interested to see a teardown as well to see what kind of build quality / QA they seem to have.
Would be interested to see a teardown as well to see what kind of build quality / QA they seem to have.
Thiele-Small loudspeaker parameters can be measured at any time in a loudspeaker driver's life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small_parameters
http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/spkrcalc/para.htm
Headphone are basically little loudspeakers.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #616
If I can get permission from the owner, I will do a tear down on it.
Hi,
is it normal that the D50 was warmer -meaning quite warm- than the D30 after an hour of 16/44.1 playback? 210mA@5W is not that much heat...
Oh yes, forget to say that this brand new D50 is now dead silent after a crackling sound in speakers... PSUs tested and ok, the D50 is dead.
Thanks for feedback fellows!
Matthieu
is it normal that the D50 was warmer -meaning quite warm- than the D30 after an hour of 16/44.1 playback? 210mA@5W is not that much heat...
Oh yes, forget to say that this brand new D50 is now dead silent after a crackling sound in speakers... PSUs tested and ok, the D50 is dead.
Thanks for feedback fellows!
Matthieu
Right, dead as a doornail, passed away, electrons won't flow in anymore. And one hour of lifespan is a tad less than expected...
Since the dying gasp (noises in speakers) the unit won't show any sign of power nor sound.
French seller will be mailed as will be Topping.
Please users, is your unit warm? Thoses cursed tantalum caps can fail short, maybe one commited suicide and brought a reg ic with him...
No more Doremi Fasol Latido...
Since the dying gasp (noises in speakers) the unit won't show any sign of power nor sound.
French seller will be mailed as will be Topping.
Please users, is your unit warm? Thoses cursed tantalum caps can fail short, maybe one commited suicide and brought a reg ic with him...
No more Doremi Fasol Latido...
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