Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[Jarrett]

Ohhh interesting, Daverz. I have a Bryston B60. A few nights ago it occurred to me I could bypass the preamp and use the high levels on the D10 alone. I have volume levelling setup in JRiver (adaptive + R128...they work together). I've also ordered the E30, and as you suggested, it's a much smarter way of controlling the volume. I don't want to damage my equipment

 

[robertospeed]

I have a Topping D50 I wanted to know if these 3 settings are correct or do I have to change something?

But is it better for SACD.iso to use ASIO or WASAPI or are they the same?

 

[Veri]

I have a Topping D50 I wanted to know if these 3 settings are correct or do I have to change something?

But is it better for SACD.iso to use ASIO or WASAPI or are they the same?

View attachment 56699

Seriously though Roberto, every single of your questions have been about latency and foobar2000. Perhaps make a new thread about this rather than posting everything in DAC discussion?

The buffer and output format are fine like that. The default settings tend to work fine, that's why they are default. Both ASIO and WASAPI should be able to support DSD. I would prefer ASIO over WASAPI for this but that's just me.

 

[robertospeed]

Seriously though Roberto, every single of your questions have been about latency and foobar2000. Perhaps make a new thread about this rather than posting everything in DAC discussion?

The buffer and output format are fine like that. The default settings tend to work fine, that's why they are default. Both ASIO and WASAPI should be able to support DSD. I would prefer ASIO over WASAPI for this but that's just me.

I'm sorry I'm new to the site, can you send me the link where I can deepen this discussion better?

 

[Veri]

I'm sorry I'm new to the site, can you send me the link where I can deepen this discussion better?

foobar2000 thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dows-developed-by-peter-pawłowski.6452/page-4
Audio Newbie/Beginner Technical Forum: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/audio-newbie-beginner-technical-forum.46/

 

[ishmeister]

My D10 is being replaced from desk duty and about to begin a new life connected to my hifi and a Raspberry Pi 4. My integrated amp (Cambridge Audio SR20) has a built in Wolfson DAC and optical inputs. Is it best to use the optical out from the D10 or the RCA outs (skipping the amp's built in DAC)? I'm leaning towards optical due to being less cable.

 

[rvsixer]

There's no way to skip the SR20's built in DAC's. Use the D10 as a USB to optical or coax SPDIF converter, that way you remain digital up until the Wolfson DAC's. If you hookup the D10 via RCA to the SR20, you are adding an unnecessary digital/analog conversion.

 

[ishmeister]

There's no way to skip the SR20's built in DAC's. Use the D10 as a USB to optical or coax SPDIF converter, that way you remain digital up until the Wolfson DAC's. If you hookup the D10 via RCA to the SR20, you are adding an unnecessary digital/analog conversion.

thanks, that's what I suspected so I'll use the optical out then.

 

[rvsixer]

Either are possible in this case, personally I'd opt for coax over optical but that's just me ...

 

[linuxfan]

There's no way to skip the SR20's built in DAC's.

Whaa? The SR20 is a Class AB amplifier, not digital.

If you hookup the D10 via RCA to the SR20, you are adding an unnecessary digital/analog conversion.

Untrue.

 

[rvsixer]

thanks, that's what I suspected so I'll use the optical out then.

Actually @linuxfan brings up a good point (though the SR20 is a stereo receiver, not a standalone amp).

I was assuming that as in most modern equipment, analog inputs are converted to digital for processing, and then back to analog for the amp section. In this case, I would use the D10 as a SPDIF convertor (so you go direct from digital source to the SR20 DAC's).

If instead, the SR20 passed analog inputs without conversion on to the amps (and instead of the above, converts its digital inputs to analog), the D10 should use RCA hookup to avoid any unnecessary conversions.

May be worthwhile to check with Cambridge directly. Let us know what you find out.

 

[ishmeister]

Actually @linuxfan brings up a good point (though the SR20 is a stereo receiver, not a standalone amp).

I was assuming that as in most modern equipment, analog inputs are converted to digital for processing, and then back to analog for the amp section. In this case, I would use the D10 as a SPDIF convertor (so you go direct from digital source to the SR20 DAC's).

If instead, the SR20 passed analog inputs without conversion on to the amps (and instead of the above, converts its digital inputs to analog), the D10 should use RCA hookup to avoid any unnecessary conversions.

May be worthwhile to check with Cambridge directly. Let us know what you find out.

I set it up today and it all works flawlessly. Raspberry Pi running Volumio, USB out to D10 and then optical out to the SR20. Volumio has hardware volume control on the DAC which I can control from my phone when using Spotify (Volumio appears as a streaming device if you install an extra plugin). So I set the amp to a fixed volume and use the DAC to change volume from my phone. Quite marvelous really.

 

[linuxfan]

May be worthwhile to check with Cambridge directly.

Not much to check. The Cambridge Audio Topaz SR20 is a Class AB analogue amplifier. Good info here -
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-mInVZT4goVF/p_779SR20/Cambridge-Audio-Topaz-SR20.html
and the SR20 has been discussed on Audiosciencereview before -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/cambridge-audio-sr20.8243/

Is it best to use the optical out from the D10 or the RCA outs (skipping the amp's built in DAC)?

Both options have potential merit. I would try both, and let your ears decide which is best ... assuming that best sound quality is your aim - not everyone cares about high-fidelity, and I know this is not a given.

If SQ is your objective, I suspect the D10's DAC will win; logically, there's only so much money and effort an amplifier designer can spend on an inbuilt DAC, without over-pricing their amplifier and becoming uncompetitive. And the SR20 is a modestly priced amplifier in the first place. Even with a high end integrated amplifier such as the NAD C375BEE, the optional DAC module is (to my ears) mediocre.

But if the SR20's inbuilt DAC sounds better, your D10 is then acting simply as a USB-to-spdif transceiver. Configuration-wise, this is kludgey. It would be more elegant, involving fewer cables and boxes, to simply add a spdif output hat to your Raspberry Pi.
https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digiplus-standard-version/
https://shop.justboom.co/products/justboom-digi-hat

 

[rvsixer]

Not much to check. The Cambridge Audio Topaz SR20 is a Class AB analogue amplifier. Good info here -
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-mInVZT4goVF/p_779SR20/Cambridge-Audio-Topaz-SR20.html
and the SR20 has been discussed on Audiosciencereview before -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/cambridge-audio-sr20.8243/


Both options have potential merit. I would try both, and let your ears decide which is best ... assuming that best sound quality is your aim - not everyone cares about high-fidelity, and I know this is not a given.

If SQ is your objective, I suspect the D10's DAC will win; logically, there's only so much money and effort an amplifier designer can spend on an inbuilt DAC, without over-pricing their amplifier and becoming uncompetitive. And the SR20 is a modestly priced amplifier in the first place. Even with a high end integrated amplifier such as the NAD C375BEE, the optional DAC module is (to my ears) mediocre.

But if the SR20's inbuilt DAC sounds better, your D10 is then acting simply as a USB-to-spdif transceiver. Configuration-wise, this is kludgey. It would be more elegant, involving fewer cables and boxes, to simply add a spdif output hat to your Raspberry Pi.
https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digiplus-standard-version/
https://shop.justboom.co/products/justboom-digi-hat

Again, the SR20, even based on your own links, is a STEREO RECEIVER (its easy enough to check with Cambridge directly, the online user manual cleary states it as a STEREO RECEIVER hint "SR" is part of its name). It is NOT a class AB amplifier (not to be confused with it not having a class AB amp inside, its just there is no accessible input for the amp directly so it has NO standalone amp capability like you are wanting us to believe here).

Read the test reports on raspberry HAT digital output converters. Most just cannot compete with the excellent USB->SPDIF performance of the D10. It's not kludgey, but in fact preferred if a USB streamer is needing to be attached. AND you get a nice digital readout of the stream format, which you would otherwise not have.

So I would still check if the SR20 uses the DAC's after the digital inputs and before the amp, or if there is an AD conversion on the analog inputs before the internal DAC's, to determine best setup with the D10.

Anyways on to real world stuff...

 

[linuxfan]

Hey guys, I'm trying to be helpful. This does not need to be adversarial.

there is no accessible input for the amp directly

I'm shocked by such a statement. Only by playing with semantics can that have a grain of truth.
There's nothing magical or different about a receiver (not to be confused with Home Theatre Receiver). It's simply an integrated amplifier with an inbuilt tuner. Like any/all non-FDA integrated amplifiers, the SR20 has direct analogue connections in the form of LINE INPUTS, marked "A1" "A2" "A3" at the rear (and "MP3 In" at the front). This is certainly "direct" in they go to the preamp stage of the SR20, and from there to the power amplifier stage.
Yes, the LINE INPUTS are not a direct connection to the power amplifier stage, but that's not at stake.

Regarding the rPi spdif transmitter hat; yes, a well-implemented USB-to-spdif converter will beat it with jitter specs ...
but then again, a well-implemented USB receiver will have even better jitter specs.
And that's really my point - I'm not advocating the USB-to-spdif-to-inbuilt-Wolfson-DAC option at all.

ishmeister, you have a half-decent DAC in the form of the D10. At least give it a try utilising its full D/A conversion abilities; USB connection from rPi to D10, D10 analogue RCA outputs to "A1" input of SR20.
I suspect this will outperform the SR20's inbuilt DAC, SQ-wise.

 

[rvsixer]

@linuxfan - you stated the SR20 "is a class AB amplifier". In normal audio circles that means it is a discrete/standalone device, which it clearly is not. A standalone amp has a directly end user accessible input (with no preamp etc. before it), the SR20 has no such input. The SR20 is a receiver (amp, preamp/tuner/DAC/etc.), not an amp. Done.

 

[linuxfan]

rvsixer, you're caught up definitions, and distracting from the central point I'm making to ishmeister, regarding optimal configuration of rPi-to-DAC-to-amplifier.
Be very, very careful about your assumptions of "normal". Your definition of "normal" does not fly on informed forums such as Audiokarma and diyaudio.

 

[linuxfan]

ishmeister, please see the final paragraph of my post #1,815.
I know it's difficult to discern the wheat from chaff on these forums, but I'm giving you good advice.

 

[leyo96]

How does the D10 do together with an Atom and k712? Thx

 

[Veri]

How does the D10 do together with an Atom and k712? Thx

Would work absolutely fine!