Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[Krunok]

Which serial number do you have.

I don't know, my son removed the sticker with serial. I purchased it in May 2018.

 

[daftcombo]

Which serial number do you have.

I'll check tonight.

EDIT: I have a good reason to think that my tweeter has inverted polarity, so if the D10 also has, it would explain why I end up with a normal polarity on the graph.

 

[Snarfie]

I don't know, my son removed the sticker with serial. I purchased it in May 2018.

Probably you have the same serial as i 1804 bought it at exactly the same time/month. That batch range from 1801 to 1805. The leatest serial is 1806 so was wondering if this inverted thing has to do with a specific serial code. Mabey Amir could see if his version tested has an inverted signal in one of his measurments. On the other hand i realy can't hear the difference with Foobar2000 combined with the "Simple Polarity Inverter" addon

 

[Krunok]

On the other hand i realy can't hear the difference with Foobar2000 combined with the "Simple Polarity Inverter" addon

I would be surprised if you could.

 

[Snarfie]

I would be surprised if you could.

For me the first time i did a Polarity check. however i did it with my small IMF Monitors. Will test it again with my fullrange JK Optima 3 speakers when i got my revised Audax HIF13 speakers back. The voice coils are beeing cleand an realinged after 40 years or so. This Optima 3 speakers have a Focal woofer symetrical placed inside the speaker. Me is told (already maney years ago) that an inverted signal has the most effect on low frequensies because the woofer is moving inward instead of forward so the moment of attack is different or is this bul...t. ?

 

[Krunok]

. Me is told (already maney years ago) that an inverted signal has the most effect on low frequensies because the woofer is moving inward instead of forward so the moment of attack is different or is this bul...t. ?

It is not, but I would still be surprised if you could hear it. Btw, I wouldn't say that "moment" of attack is different, it is the direction, moment stays the same.

 

[magicscreen]

Topping D70 SINAD = 110
Topping D10 SINAD = 106
But, does the D70 sound (much) better? So you would rather buy the D70 if you have the money?

 

[Zek]

Does anyone think SINAD can determine how the device sounds?

 

[Krunok]

Does anyone think SINAD can determine how the device sounds?

You would need to measure some other parameters as well, but basically yes, as a single parameter is is quite usefull in determining if DAC is transparent or not. To our ears D70 and D10 would both sound the same - totally transparent.

 

[HAL9000]

The analog output stage of a DAC is a critical element in the DAC's

And directly determine the sonic success of the DAC.

I've listened D10 , D30, D50 , D70....

They are all very similar.

And in a price range of $ 100- $ 900, everything is very similar. Similar chips, output opamps, measurements.

Two discrete I/V stages with no opamps in the output is next level in sound.

For example

http://www.easyaudiokit.com/bekkan/manual/RenewDiscreteIV.pdf
http://www.easyaudiokit.com/bekkan/manual/DAC9038DManual.pdf

These two PCBs are insane.

 

[Krunok]

Two discrete I/V stages with no opamps in the output is next level in sound.

Because, as everybody knows, opamps are bad for sound, right?

But let me guess - you can't offer a proof of that claim, aside from your hearing impressions, correct?

 

[HAL9000]

Because, as everybody knows, opamps are bad for sound, right?

But let me guess - you can't offer a proof of that claim, aside from your hearing impressions, correct?

The proof is in the pie.

This is the same as if someone said the chip amp is better than discrete MOSFET amplifier in class A.

No one can prove that the opamp is better. Measurements are the same.

But the ears hear differently.

 

[Krunok]

But the ears hear differently.

Oh, you are one of those guys with "golden" ears? But you have never tried to listen to different DACs and amps in a proper blind test, correct?

It is your mind that "hears" differently when you know what you are listening. The moment you wouldn't know which device is playing you would quickly realise that most of the decent ones sound exactly the same. I suggest you do a little reading before posting on a scientific forum, otherwise be aware that your subjective claims will be heavilly criticised here.

 

[HAL9000]

Oh, you are one fo those guys with "golden" ears?

Nope.

 

[HAL9000]

I suggest you do a little reading before posting on a scientific forum,

I will not read anything here anymore .... goodbye brainy.

 

[BDWoody]

The analog output stage of a DAC is a critical element in the DAC's

And directly determine the sonic success of the DAC.

I've listened D10 , D30, D50 , D70....

They are all very similar.

And in a price range of $ 100- $ 900, everything is very similar. Similar chips, output opamps, measurements.

Two discrete I/V stages with no opamps in the output is next level in sound.

For example

http://www.easyaudiokit.com/bekkan/manual/RenewDiscreteIV.pdf
http://www.easyaudiokit.com/bekkan/manual/DAC9038DManual.pdf

View attachment 28955


These two PCBs are insane.

Wow...With boards like that, it JUST HAS TO sound better... So...Almost like magic, it does...

 

[Veri]

Wow...With boards like that, it JUST HAS TO sound better... So...Almost like magic, it does...

Almost as if expectation bias is a thing!

 

[HAL9000]

Wow...With boards like that, it JUST HAS TO sound better... So...Almost like magic, it does...

Two dual power supplies, two dual ES9038PRO DAC, two dual discrete I/V stages. Filter bandwidth adjusment. Filter Shape adjustment (Fast Roll-Off Linear or Minimum Phase or Hybrid) . THD compensation adjustment. Digital volume, Noise Dither ON-OFF, De-emphasis selector, Jitter Elimation ON-OFF. Master Trim setting, SW check and update, Frequency Calculator, DSD Bandwith set….


The problem is a price tag who does not know how to make a DIY DAC like this (It's not cheap either in the DIY version). From $ 3500 up to $ 16,000.

 

[BDWoody]

Almost as if expectation bias is a thing!

Everyone should have their private audio Idaho...

In mine, I raise the unicorns that vomit the USB cable coating that really opens up the soundstage in ways that are impossible to measure, but any phool can hear it...

 

[Krunok]

Everyone should have their private audio Idaho...

In mine, I raise the unicorns that vomit the USB cable coating that really opens up the soundstage in ways that are impossible to measure, but any phool can hear it...

Wow.. I always suspected unicorns exist but didn't even dream they would turn out to be that useful with audio!