Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[Blumlein 88]

Thank you, very interesting yet 24 bit PCM2704 beating 20 bit DACs isn't overly surprising.

So why did Schiit pick a 20 bit DAC for their flagship?

 

[SIY]

That's a good point. Alas, the selectively becomes poor with flat top and lobing gets excessive, making the graph look well, offensive if you get my drift

Yes, the tradeoff is peak amplitude accuracy versus cosmetics. It's a lousy window for resolving sidebands, but right tool for the right job and all that.

If you'll forgive me for pimping one of my articles, here's a review of common window types and their tradeoffs.

 

[Thomas Savage]

That's a good point. Alas, the selectively becomes poor with flat top and lobing gets excessive, making the graph look well, offensive if you get my drift

View attachment 13543

I wonder if the lack of symmetry of the ‘balls’ is audible ... , maybe I will start a new thread on this.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Sigh.

Courious; what audio equipment do you listen to? And are your choices solely based on measurements? TIA

 

[SIY]

How about if we stay on topic?

 

[gvl]

So why did Schiit pick a 20 bit DAC for their flagship?

I suspect that for whatever subjective, business or nostalgic reason they wanted to have a multibit DAC in their portfolio, I haven't checked, but are 20+ bit multibit DAC chips still in production today?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

How about if we stay on topic?

ok you post it somewhere else. TIA

 

[gvl]

No, not for audio.

Technically their AD chip isn't for audio either. Looking at other current multibit offerings you have to design your own ladder if you want to go lower than 20 bits.

 

[Ron Texas]

Yet another Yaggi lovefest:
https://www.cnet.com/news/the-best-...l-audio-converter/#ftag=rss.audiophiliac.ftag
Or is it a Schitt storm?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I suspect that for whatever subjective, business or nostalgic reason they wanted to have a multibit DAC in their portfolio, I haven't checked, but are 20+ bit multibit DAC chips still in production today?

Okay fine for some reason, other than performance, they picked a non-audio 20 bit DAC. That makes your complaint about Amir comparing his 23 or 24 bit DAC to a 20 bit DAC moot. Their DAC choice has put limitations on their performance. That is part of design. Don't make design choices that result in sub-par performance. Especially if that design is intended as your top of the line, flagship product.

 

[Ron Texas]

Okay fine for some reason, other than performance, they picked a non-audio 20 bit DAC. That makes your complaint about Amir comparing his 23 or 24 bit DAC to a 20 bit DAC moot. Their DAC choices has put limitations on their performance. That is part of design. Don't make design choices that result in sub-par performance. Especially if that design is intended as your top of the line, flagship product.

Could the reason be marketing? By using a non audio DAC they try to position against other manufacturers using proprietary designs.

 

[Grave]

Yet another Yaggi lovefest:
https://www.cnet.com/news/the-best-...l-audio-converter/#ftag=rss.audiophiliac.ftag
Or is it a Schitt storm?

Oh that guy, yeah he is a typical deluded audiophile.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Could the reason be marketing? By using a non audio DAC they try to position against other manufacturers using proprietary designs.

If you ask me the marketing is all that company has going for it. The idea they are doing different stuff than others.

 

[Wombat]

I believe he is stating what he is hearing.

Perceiving.

 

[derp1n]

If you ask me the marketing is all that company has going for it. The idea they are doing different stuff than others.

Same with the "closed-form" supermegacombullschiit filter stuff. It doesn't even have as many filter taps as a baby Chord!

On the other hand, a 20 bit DAC makes sense if you believe "high res" is rubbish and meeting Red Book standards is sufficient. And Yggdrasil is linear to 16 bits even by Amir's strict criteria. SINAD, on the other hand, whoops.

 

[gvl]

With the filter interpolating to 20, or is it 24? 16 bits is not enough.

As for other comments, design decisions aside, I just wanted to know how it stacks up against other DACs based on 20 bit multibit chips, so saying its worse than a 24 bit DAC is really no surprise.

 

[Alcophone]

Okay fine for some reason, other than performance, they picked a non-audio 20 bit DAC. That makes your complaint about Amir comparing his 23 or 24 bit DAC to a 20 bit DAC moot. Their DAC choice has put limitations on their performance. That is part of design. Don't make design choices that result in sub-par performance. Especially if that design is intended as your top of the line, flagship product.

April 21, 2015, Valencia, CA. The new Yggdrasil DAC from Schiit Audio is an entirely different take on "end-game" DAC design, eschewing the now-standard delta-sigma and DSD-optimized architectures to deliver optimal performance for the 99.99% of recorded music out there—music in PCM format.

"Yggdrasil was designed with a single goal in mind: to give you the most from the music you already have," said Mike Moffat, Co-Founder of Schiit Audio.

(Source)

While I now have quite a few albums with 24 bits, and more than 44.1 kHz, if I take into account my CDs from earlier days, and Spotify, the majority of the music I listen to is indeed 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. That's what the Yggdrasil is primarily designed for, rather than DSD, MQA or what have you.

 

[amirm]

(Source)

While I now have quite a few albums with 24 bits, and more than 44.1 kHz, if I take into account my CDs from earlier days, and Spotify, the majority of the music I listen to is indeed 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. That's what the Yggdrasil is primarily designed for, rather than DSD, MQA or what have you.

That is not what their website says:

Did they ever verify the DAC produces 21 bits?

Their latest advertising now claims they even do better than 24 bits (140 dBFS): https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-yggdrasil-ads-on-stereophile-may-issue.2633/

Their own ad says that is wrong given the strong power supply spikes that rise above the main tone let alone the rest of the noise/distortion:

The company claims here are quite obvious and unfortunately quite misleading at best, and false at worst.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

That is not what their website says:

View attachment 13565

Did they ever verify the DAC produces 21 bits?

Their latest advertising now claims they even do better than 24 bits (140 dBFS): https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-yggdrasil-ads-on-stereophile-may-issue.2633/

View attachment 13566

The own ad says that is wrong given the strong power supply spikes that rise above the main tone let alone the rest of the noise/distortion:

The company claims here are quite obvious and unfortunately quite misleading at best, and false at worst.

Are internal components/design causing the power supply noise you are measuring?

 

[amirm]

Are internal components/design causing the power supply noise you are measuring?

Those weren't my measurements.