Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[Rottmannash]

Do you find any difference between the E30 and D70? If so, what is the difference? I am very intrigued by the D70 but belong to the anti-MQA crowd. The world doesn't need another proprietary format (not for audio, not for video, not for photo).

They sound identical to me. The D70 isn't MQA capable, the D70s is I believe. I cannot tell a difference between the two. And they have been faultless in operation and I have never experienced a shock when touching the cases.

 

[Rottmannash]

That's enough...
You can take a week off.

.....and there it is. He needed a time-out.

 

[Chesterfield]

Well, coming to this late. Having read through this chain, or much of it, I'm left with a few inescapable conclusions: 1.) Amirm has been bizarrely aggressive, especially for a staff member who designates himself CFO, or Chief Fun Officer. There's fun, and then there's a peevish rant intended to give grief and express indignation . 2.) The Ygg costs $1k more than the RME. It'd be really bizarre if it didn't sound better.

The review from the musicians didn't give me pause until the line about the 8 year old son. I was a professional classical guitarist specializing in Bach, with a goddam golden virtuosic ear--and Amirm, you really shouldn't discount that so readily. It's true that audiophiles are absolutely up-to-the-task for identifying technical superiority, and often musicality--but while audiophiles without a musicians' background can and often do arrive at the same conclusion, I typically give more weight when musicians lend their opinion to musicality. Euphony and timbre is all musicians care about. That's their realm. That said, I've seen electrical engineer-audiophiles arrive at the same conclusions as me.

But . . . whatever my training, I can't imagine ever saying something like that as an 8 year old, unless I was Mozart. Or Bach. Or some other prodigy. Really? Because to me, the RME was lightyears ahead of where I was. Saying the RME sounds bad is just silly. Maybe in comparison to angels singing from the heavens--and maybe that's what the Ygg is. But I spend 4-10 hours/day listening to the RME--absolutely entranced by it, which is kind of distracting when I'm supposed to be working. That really does make it sound like the settings between the Ygg and RME were incomparable (though I'm perfectly willing to believe the Ygg sounds more musical).

I upgraded my 8 yr old Gungnir to an RME ADI-2 Dac. The RME was a world above it--as you'd expect. But above the Ygg? I'd actually have to hear it. Measurements will only get you so far. Try measuring paintings and see how far that gets you in the world of art. Measurements don't tell you about musicality. I can tell you Mike Moffat has a hell of an ear. But I'd also say, the RME has a good Equalizer, so it's pretty versatile, and can compensate for a lot of component / cable / tube shortfalls--but just frequency dynamics, not detail, imaging, and soundstage.

Oy, the internet.

 

[tw99]

@Chesterfield you have obviously missed that most of the “science” bit of ASR is actually based on listening results, not measuring. But listening results from tests in controlled conditions. Your personal uncontrolled listening impressions are not really interesting or relevant to anyone else.

 

[amirm]

2.) The Ygg costs $1k more than the RME. It'd be really bizarre if it didn't sound better.

Why? You think it is difficult to design a more expensive DAC that performs worse???

I can tell you Mike Moffat has a hell of an ear.

Oh? Where would I read about his controlled testing of anything? I can provide countless ones for mine.

 

[amirm]

I was a professional classical guitarist specializing in Bach, with a goddam golden virtuosic ear--and Amirm, you really shouldn't discount that so readily. It's true that audiophiles are absolutely up-to-the-task for identifying technical superiority, and often musicality--but while audiophiles without a musicians' background can and often do arrive at the same conclusion, I typically give more weight when musicians lend their opinion to musicality. Euphony and timbre is all musicians care about. That's their realm. That said, I've seen electrical engineer-audiophiles arrive at the same conclusions as me.

You are the type of person I created this video for:

 

[amirm]

Oy, the internet.

Tell us about it! Once a month someone refreshes this thread and a few like it and thinks based on lay understanding of audio they can school all of us on how the audio world turns. We could shut the thread down but maybe it is more entertaining this way....

 

[Veri]

Measurements will only get you so far. Try measuring paintings and see how far that gets you in the world of art. Measurements don't tell you about musicality.

A painting is a piece of art. An engineering project such as making a well performing (and thus good sounding) DAC is hardly art, it is science. It is absolutely possible to test every aspect for problems, consistency, performance. You're at the wrong place if you're going to dispute that ..

Schiit has an audio precision machine, entirely because they know they need/want to sell products that perform well.

 

[VintageFlanker]

2.) The Ygg costs $1k more than the RME. It'd be really bizarre if it didn't sound better.

There are plenty of reasons (distribution, industrial capabilities, margins, marketing) why a product costs higher than another. Sound quality is definitely not one of them.

 

[Soniclife]

There are plenty of reasons (distribution, industrial capabilities, margins, marketing) why a product costs higher than another. Sound quality is definitely not one of them.

You forgot greed, and having no respect for your customers.

 

[Jimbob54]

Well, coming to this late. Having read through this chain, or much of it, I'm left with a few inescapable conclusions: 1.) Amirm has been bizarrely aggressive, especially for a staff member who designates himself CFO, or Chief Fun Officer. There's fun, and then there's a peevish rant intended to give grief and express indignation . 2.) The Ygg costs $1k more than the RME. It'd be really bizarre if it didn't sound better.

The review from the musicians didn't give me pause until the line about the 8 year old son. I was a professional classical guitarist specializing in Bach, with a goddam golden virtuosic ear--and Amirm, you really shouldn't discount that so readily. It's true that audiophiles are absolutely up-to-the-task for identifying technical superiority, and often musicality--but while audiophiles without a musicians' background can and often do arrive at the same conclusion, I typically give more weight when musicians lend their opinion to musicality. Euphony and timbre is all musicians care about. That's their realm. That said, I've seen electrical engineer-audiophiles arrive at the same conclusions as me.

But . . . whatever my training, I can't imagine ever saying something like that as an 8 year old, unless I was Mozart. Or Bach. Or some other prodigy. Really? Because to me, the RME was lightyears ahead of where I was. Saying the RME sounds bad is just silly. Maybe in comparison to angels singing from the heavens--and maybe that's what the Ygg is. But I spend 4-10 hours/day listening to the RME--absolutely entranced by it, which is kind of distracting when I'm supposed to be working. That really does make it sound like the settings between the Ygg and RME were incomparable (though I'm perfectly willing to believe the Ygg sounds more musical).

I upgraded my 8 yr old Gungnir to an RME ADI-2 Dac. The RME was a world above it--as you'd expect. But above the Ygg? I'd actually have to hear it. Measurements will only get you so far. Try measuring paintings and see how far that gets you in the world of art. Measurements don't tell you about musicality. I can tell you Mike Moffat has a hell of an ear. But I'd also say, the RME has a good Equalizer, so it's pretty versatile, and can compensate for a lot of component / cable / tube shortfalls--but just frequency dynamics, not detail, imaging, and soundstage.

Oy, the internet.

OK- lets park a couple of things - your musical ear and critique of Amir's review. And lets not go down the price must equal sound quality road.

My main contention is this idea of "musicality" in audio electronics. Do I not want all the musicality , euphony, timbre etc in the source recording and a playback chain that faithfully reproduces that (until all hell breaks loose with the speakers and the room) ? Why do I want Mike Moffat to do any form of musical seasoning? If its not on the recording, I dont want it.

Edit and if I do want it, find a way to add it myself in a non destructive way.

 

[Chesterfield]

Agreed the difference in price doesn't always (often doesn't?) equate to quality. I've been an artist. However, I've also been a software designer. Anyone that tells me software is just engineering without an art doesn't really understand it. Perhaps the same isn't true of DAC engineering--but it's true of every science I've been involved in. And I have a Ph.D. in a hard science. So give me a break. Have a great life.

 

[BDWoody]

Oy, the internet.

You got that right...

And I have a Ph.D. in a hard science.

Maybe they should have made it harder...

Have a great life.

You Too!

 

[SIY]

And I have a Ph.D. in a hard science. So give me a break. Have a great life.

If you were good at it, it wouldn’t be so hard.

 

[bboris77]

This spectacular revival of this thread has made me even more interested in hearing this DAC I have never had the pleasure.

Joking aside, it would be fantastic if Schiit (or someone else), organized a proper blind test between their cheapest (Modi 3+) and most expensive DAC (Yggy) using something like the HD800S and a really transparent speaker setup. Obviously, it's not going to happen until COVID is done totally.

The thing with this DAC is that it emerged in an era where delta-sigma chips and their implementation were not even close to where they are now. Therefore, I can see how Mike wanted to improve on the perceived deficiencies of D/S and USB interfaces at that particular time. I am wondering how relevant all these arguments are now with all the improvements over the last couple of years. Has the only real audible difference between something like the Modi 3+ and the Yggy narrowed down to the SuperComboBurrito reconstruction filter? These are all interesting questions but the only thing that matters is whether there are any audible differences, which could be answered by this type of David vs Goliath Thunderdome test.

 

[Veri]

If you were good at it, it wouldn’t be so hard.

SIY please don't murder people, ASR might be held responsible

 

[maxxevv]

Agreed the difference in price doesn't always (often doesn't?) equate to quality. I've been an artist. However, I've also been a software designer. Anyone that tells me software is just engineering without an art doesn't really understand it. Perhaps the same isn't true of DAC engineering--but it's true of every science I've been involved in. And I have a Ph.D. in a hard science. So give me a break. Have a great life.

So what was the title of your Phd thesis then ? I would certainly like to have a read if I can find it.

 

[BDWoody]

So what was the title of your Phd thesis then ? I would certainly like to have a read if I can find it.

Elvisfield has left the building...

 

[gvl]

Joking aside, it would be fantastic if Schiit (or someone else), organized a proper blind test between their cheapest (Modi 3+) and most expensive DAC (Yggy) using something like the HD800S and a really transparent speaker setup.

Afaik they were hosting sessions for their fans at the Shiitr, yes it is an actual place. Not sure about proper blind tests there but the were going through some DAC sound comparisons there.

 

[Jimbob54]

Elvisfield has left the building...

He came. He talked Schiit.