New name. Busker Schiit.
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Review and Measurements of Schiit BiFrost DAC
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
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Hifihedgehog
Guest
*Shudders* No wonder some people call it a poo stack—they aptly earn the title because the performance stinks. And you can bet there is a snowball’s chance in Death Valley that they will ever be capable or eligible for UL listing with this lackluster of design quality.
thunderchicken
Active Member
I've had mine since 2014 (w/USB) with no issues, and it was a clear step up from the dac I had before. I've put an OL dac, a Modi 2U, and the DX3 into that system and I keep going back to the Bifrost. Maybe mine's broken too, maybe not- it definitely didn't come used from eBay. I'll get rid of it someday, but first I have to come up with a grand and change for one of those top dacs- the Okto, Gustard, or D1. Until then, I'm happy with my Schiit stack.
Its a total joke. But even with these performance and safety issues, I still come up against hoards of Schiit fan boys online that won't even read objective information about the products. I've even had a Mod on Drop disagree! (‘It’s Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled’ rings true). Unfortunately, it seems that Schiit was able to generate some hype and brand recognition in a market without informed consumers or transparency, and they've been riding that wave ever since.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
Unfortunately this is what happens with many brands.
Once you build the brand name then you just take advantage of everyone. Because people don't want to believe that they have been fooled, or that any brand they like is actually bad.
I am confused as to why you would review a DAC that is no longer in production as if it is a representative of their current product. To my understanding, I have read your reviews as an attempt to determine objective standards and ratings for audio equipment. This lacks anything remotely like objectivity. You received an eight year old unit, far out of production and no longer representative of the product, from a third party from which you cannot verify the treatment of that product during those years. You then draw conclusions about Schiit's current practices based on their standards and equipment from 2011. This post drips with inauthenticity. Your conclusions judge a companies standards of today when you are critiquing a unit built in a garage almost a decade ago. If you feel that the only way you can find objective results is buy testing customer units, become a customer when testing units. Purchase the unit under a pseudonym and test it objectively and honestly. If its bad, say its bad based on fair test conditions.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
This was already done and the products were trash.
Please read other reviews as Amir does tests on units of all ages that people send to him.
Schiit makes Shit, its literally in the name and if you think otherwise..... well read around and learn.
Some notes:
No matter how old it is. It's still made by schiit. It's still a good representation of schiit's engineering. You won't see anything like this with benchmark's dac1 which is released in 2003. There weren't any good audio dac, benchmark had to make it work on their own. Schiit just chose to make bad products and sell it to you as the best thing ever.
There are measurements of newer stuff or different topology. Some are good, some are bad. But commonly the engineering is still shit.
Just to prevent Shiit becoming the victims of such rumours: There is no such thing as a "fake" CE mark. This is an urban legend that seems to be impossible to eradicate.
This simply a badly rendered CE mark, so merely evidence of sloppy work, but not of evil will. A manufacturer does not gain anything by not adhering to the proper proportions of the symbol, as EU customs might reject such products at the border, or even destroy them without compensation to the owner. But the manufacturer or importer will not be less liable or responsible than with a properly rendered CE mark.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
I'm not sure what you are talking about? CE is a self certification anyway.
Yes, sure it is. But the words "fake" and "knowingly put the FAKE on it" conveys - at least to me - the notion that this could be some form of illegal or at least illegitimate cheating, or they could have done it for fraudulent intentions. This is not true.
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Jimster480
Major Contributor
Well I think by the meaning of fake; its that the certification is displayed on the product which doesn't actually meet the spec.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #53
There are countless fake CE marks from products coming out of China for example. Whether Schiit is doing the same is up to them to positively deny. Have you seen them provide that or any statement of compliance?
This is from Topping for example:
Notice the bottom two certificates. In other posts, I have shown even what lab they use.
Have you seen something like this from Schiit for any product they produce?
What does that matter? You do not have to have any certifications, and still can legally apply a CE mark. All that the CE mark says is that you as a manufacturer or importer are aware of the EU conformity requirements and that you claim that your product is compliant. You do need to have this certified by anyone.
The stimulus for NTomokawa's suspicion apparently was not whether Shiit has any certifications or not (which he/she cannot know anyway), it apparently was the fact that the CE mark on your photo has wrong proportions (too short distance between C and E, and both letters being horizontally compressed). There are lots of rumours on the web that such symbols would be "fake", often declared as "China Export", and such a "fake" symbol would be used deliberately to deceive authorities and consumers, and doing so they'd not be liable anymore for the compliance of the product. These rumours are plain wrong.
But we're getting off-topic here. Just wanted to make a remark because this misunderstanding could nourish rumours that Shiit would be acting illegally.
The stimulus for NTomokawa's suspicion apparently was not whether Shiit has any certifications or not (which he/she cannot know anyway), it apparently was the fact that the CE mark on your photo has wrong proportions (too short distance between C and E, and both letters being horizontally compressed). There are lots of rumours on the web that such symbols would be "fake", often declared as "China Export", and such a "fake" symbol would be used deliberately to deceive authorities and consumers, and doing so they'd not be liable anymore for the compliance of the product. These rumours are plain wrong.
But we're getting off-topic here. Just wanted to make a remark because this misunderstanding could nourish rumours that Shiit would be acting illegally.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #55
It matters because I have examined some Schiit products and they have dubious safety measures. See: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...otunheim-headphone-amplifier.3733/#post-89406
And: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/schiit-saga-grounding-and-hum-issues.4737/
You better have tested the product to comply. Since companies like Schiit are likely not big enough to perform such tests themselves, it is reasonable to ask them to provide said certificate. Without such testing, it is NOT legal to use that mark.
As it is, my antenna is up as to whether they have indeed performed the necessary safety checks. Send them a message and ask them and let's see what they say.
Well, I'm not saying that it is impossible that Shiit is cheating. I'm just saying they're not doing it for the reasons NTomokawa has mentioned / linked to. But I reckon I'd better discuss this further in that linked thread, not here.
You're talking out of your ass bud; they're putting a baboon / altered version of the CE mark like the Chinese crooks do. The different proportions are a trick, as the real CE certification verifies that the product is a safe device according to European regulations. Schiit has made a multitude of mistakes and wrong actions, so I'm not surprised to see this. They're a backyard operation and a danger to the public if I ever saw one. Save this post as a reminder: Schiit is going to be closed down by a massive lawsuit in the future due to dangerous and illegal engineering and business practices.
What's the "real ce certification"??
Please, let's continue that debate where it belongs: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beware-the-fake-ce-mark.6315/
I've stated the rationale behind my claim more extensively there.
In this thread I'd really only wanted to make you aware that NTomokawa has based his/her claim on wrong assumptions, didn't want to clutter it up with such a debate.
I've stated the rationale behind my claim more extensively there.
In this thread I'd really only wanted to make you aware that NTomokawa has based his/her claim on wrong assumptions, didn't want to clutter it up with such a debate.
Basically the wrong CE mark has nothing to do with the poor safety compliance of some schiit products. It's the same if they put a correct CE mark. For end user it serves almost no purpose. As demonstrated CE certification can be self certified or certified by 3rd party. Yes those 3rd part certifications do mean a thing. But it's irrelevant to the schiit case. You can put a CE mark on a product without 3rd party certificates. For end user it would be the same if there isn't a CE mark outside Europe.
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