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Review and Measurements of New Topping D50s DAC

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Again different bandwidth. Maybe you don't know what that means. I'll elaborate.
These two tests are THD+N tests. Meaning the noise is a very important part of the number. The N (noise) is the accumulated noise of BW * N0 or intergral of noise at all individual frequency. Thus, higher BW = higher noise = higher THD+N.
Why amir chose 90khz for thd+n vs frequency test. He chose it because the distortion after around 7khz will go down due to bandwidth limit, 3rd harmonic of 8khz which is 24khz for example will not show up in the thd+n vs frequency test if bandwidth is set to 22khz. However this leads to the first issue the number is constantly higher.
There maybe way around it like thd no n vs frequency, separate spectrum of 10khz etc. But generally you only need to look at dynamic range, use it to calculate noise floor, and the multitone test. That's all you hear in real world.
i know what it means and i know how to calculate it, as many of you here i'm an electronic and telecommunication engineer :)
Since what we hear is only in the 20-20k band, i think it's better to set a standard for BW for all measurements, i know that in this way in thd vs freq. there's a lot that won't show up since harmonics go past 20k, but who cares after all? For me it's better to have consistency between measurements, it's the way I choose for all my measures, and i thought that even the 1k thd was at the same BW. Or if you prefer, use the 90k bandwith even for the 1k test. However it doesn't matter, I had the answer for my question, I thought the Bw was the same.
 

777

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Thank you for the explanation.
In Japan, there are no customs duties or customs fees for products purchased from China. Customs and customs fees are required for purchases from the US and Europe.
No. There are not fees between Japan and U.E, from 01.02.2019 ;)
 

Toku

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No. There are not fees between Japan and U.E, from 01.02.2019 ;)
Really!!!
When I purchased SMSL's SU-8, I was disappointed with plenty of taxes and fees.
Since then, I had given up purchasing from Masdrop.
 
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Has anyone had problems playing audio through Bluetooth with an Android device? I want to know if my issue is an isolated case or not before I try to troubleshoot the BT connection.*snip*
Update:
I tested the Bluetooth with a factory reset stock Samsung Galaxy J16 (SM-J120W 6.0.1) I borrowed, and I have the exact same problem as both my other Samsung phones.

So either the D50s Bluetooth is incompatible with Samsung phones, or I have a faulty unit.

Can someone with a Samsung phone test the Bluetooth on their D50s and let me know if there are any issues such as the ones I described?
I think it's time for me to email Topping about this before my Amazon return window is over.

HTC U11 connects fine using LDAC here. I can switch back and forth between BT and USB (from a Raspberry Pi 4) with music running on both without any issues. Haven't tested exhaustively...
Thanks, helps me narrow down the problem.
 
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Also working ok (disconnect/reconnect) with old Samsung Galaxy J3 phone (android 5) and galaxy tab s2 (android 7). HTC U11 is android 8.
 

ZeDestructor

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Really!!!
When I purchased SMSL's SU-8, I was disappointed with plenty of taxes and fees.
Since then, I had given up purchasing from Masdrop.
That's just all international shopping where the seller doesn't assume the burden of customs procedures (which is the norm). I import stuff personally all the time, and fees and taxes are all entirely within expected, declared and documented norms. Just because you didn't factor in fees and taxes does not make it Massdrop/Drop's fault.
 
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https://www.qualcomm.com/products/csr8675

In the specs of CSR 8675 they don't list LDAC.
So what's going on? Do they implement a way to convert LDAC into APTX HD within android platform? Because it seems Csr8675 only receive APTX HD stream.

If so any loss of audio bit data in the process?

It is correct to claim native LDAC support by manufacturers without pointing this?
 

Toku

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Update:
I tested the Bluetooth with a factory reset stock Samsung Galaxy J16 (SM-J120W 6.0.1) I borrowed, and I have the exact same problem as both my other Samsung phones.

So either the D50s Bluetooth is incompatible with Samsung phones, or I have a faulty unit.

Can someone with a Samsung phone test the Bluetooth on their D50s and let me know if there are any issues such as the ones I described?
I think it's time for me to email Topping about this before my Amazon return window is over.


Thanks, helps me narrow down the problem.
I use OPPO and HUAWEI, but both can connect normally.
 
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Update for my Bluetooth connectivity issue:
I borrowed an Insignia Flex 10.1 NS-P10A7100 tablet with Android 6.0.1, and it worked perfectly for playing audio through Bluetooth on the D50s. So based on this and the reports people here have given, it's not a problem with Android.

I emailed Topping with a detailed report of what I tested and what people here have reported, and here is their response after I ran the tests they asked me:
"We are trying to seek the 3 Samsung mobile phones that you mentioned for a testing, but unfortunately we still can not find out yet. Since we did not receive any failure reports of this problem so far, maybe you can ask more people for help, with whom own the same mobile phones( Note5(5.1)or Note9(8.1)or Galaxy J16(SM-J120W)to test their D50S, so as to judge whether it's the problem of D50S or D50S do not support these 3 mobile phones."

Anyone here able to test their D50s with any of these 3 phones? Specifically, does audio playback work? It would help me and Topping figure out this situation. Please include the OS version and exact phone model if you can.

Also, if anyone has had Bluetooth connectivity/audio playing issues, please report it to Topping and here.

I use OPPO and HUAWEI, but both can connect normally.
Thanks for the info. If it's not too much trouble, could you edit your post with the phone name and OS version? It might be useful.


Edit: I also sent Topping a Bluetooth HCI snoop log because I thought it might help, but I guess they didn't look at it or don't know how to interpret it.
 
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Toku

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Can the Samsung device connect to other devices?
However, Bluetooth does not guarantee connection with all devices.

There are some other problems with D50 & D50s.
1. Coax connection does not work depending on the connected device. Signals cannot be detected when connected to a Sony Blu-ray player.
2. PCM44.1kHz--352kHz music after playing PCM384kHz music generates a big pop noise and shocks the speaker.
DX7s has the same symptoms.
(TOPPING responds that we cannot deal with the problem of ESS chip.
)

Of course, all these problems are reported to TOPPING.

I also purchased D10 DX3Pro SU-8, but there is no such trouble.
 
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Can the Samsung device connect to other devices?
Yes, all of them can. The Note9 and Note5 have been used on several devices. But this question prompted me to think of something else I could try. See below.


Update for my Bluetooth connectivity issue:
I was thinking of other possibilities that I could test, and I remembered that I could change the BT audio codec used in the developer options. So I tried SBC on my Note9, and it worked. Then I switched to AAC, and that worked too. So I switched back to aptX (the default when connecting to D50s), and as expected, I had the same problems as before.

To support my findings, I checked the other 3 Android devices I mentioned before. Since they aren't on Android Oreo (8.0), they don't have the option of changing the codec. So I instead used the Bluetooth HCI snoop log and Wireshark to determine what audio codec was being used when it tried to play audio.
  • On the working Insignia Flex 10.1, SBC is being used.
  • On the all of the devices which were unable to play audio, aptX is being used. The exception is the Note9 which also doesn't play audio on LDAC.
So, I've narrowed down the problem to being related to aptX & LDAC on the 3 devices I tested, or possibly all Android phones. So has anyone successfully used aptX and LDAC on the D50s with an Android phone? You can check in developer options.

Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of how to read the btsnoop HCI logs to determine what's causing the audio to not play. I hope Topping can figure this out soon, or I might return my D50s.


HTC U11 is android 8.
Does audio play through aptX and LDAC?
 
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LDAC, aptx, aptxhd all behaving well with HTC U11 Android 8. Even on the fly switching is pretty smooth. Disconnect/reconnect, input switching etc all fine.
 
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I am also interested in bluetooth connectivity and I am mainly intriqued by the noise differences using bluetooth instead of usb as a driver.
Also, anyone used the raspberry's 3+ bluetooth to connect with the D50s?

thank you all
 
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Update for my Bluetooth connectivity issue:
Topping tested a XIAOMI 5 (8.0+), and it had no problems with all of the codecs.

Topping support has reported the issue to their R&D department.


I'll post an update when when I've got more information. I will see if I can find more aptX devices to test with.
 

mt196

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Update for my Bluetooth connectivity issue:
Topping tested a XIAOMI 5 (8.0+), and it had no problems with all of the codecs.

Topping support has reported the issue to their R&D department.


I'll post an update when when I've got more information. I will see if I can find more aptX devices to test with.
Silly question: why aren't you returning the product for RMA and make them figure out what is wrong with your particular unit, since a lot of other people seem to don't have any problem with Bluetooth?
 
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Update for my Bluetooth connectivity issue:
I tested a Macbook Pro 2018 with aptX, and it too would not play audio through my D50s. It also disconnects by itself a few seconds after playing. It differed from the Android phones I tested because it was able to reconnect to the D50s afterwards, but it would still not play audio through aptX.

I will send all the info up to this point to Topping.

Silly question: why aren't you returning the product for RMA and make them figure out what is wrong with your particular unit, since a lot of other people seem to don't have any problem with Bluetooth?
Mainly because Topping never asked me to send them my unit. And it's still not clear yet if the problem is with my unit or with the D50s in general. Until they or we (the internet) figures that out by testing the same devices I have on another D50s, we don't know if I have a faulty unit or not.
I can also return my D50s to Amazon anytime for the next 2.5 weeks. But i'd rather solve this problem before then so I know if I should buy another D50s or not. I don't even know if the DX3 Pro LDAC would work since it uses the same Bluetooth chip (although uses different chip to decode BT).

If you would like to help speed things up, you can test the aptX and LDAC on your D50s with either a Note9, Note5, Galaxy J16, or Macbook Pro 2018. I'll send the results to Topping.
 
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After sending the information from the last day to Topping, they said they think it's a problem specifically with my D50s and I should replace it with the Amazon seller. So that's what i'll be doing.
However, they did not say they specifically tested another D50s with the devices I used. They only said "Just as you asked some D50s users on the internet, we did not meet this problem where the music cannot be played after this connection". So hopefully the replacement doesn't have the same problem.
In any case, this is bad for the reputation of Topping and the D50s.


Update Aug 24
The seller I bought from on Amazon will be sending me a new D50s from China to test at no cost. A lot of trust in me there.
 
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My Topping finally arrived. I ordered first unit at 23 of july and it got lost somwhere between UK and Poland. Seller said it'll be qicker to send me another one than wait for information about first parcel. Hope it at least works well ;)
 
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I received my replacement D50s today, and the Bluetooth problem is gone! At last my Note9 can play aptX and LDAC. I will be testing other devices soon to make sure.

Bluetooth Connectivity Issue Conclusion:
My first D50s was faulty because it would not play aptX or LDAC on any of the 4 devices and 2 OSes I tested. The replacement I received works flawlessly.
Thanks to everyone here who helped me by testing their D50s!

What I learned from this experience:
Always test every feature of the device you purchased before the return or warranty period is over.
 

mt196

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What I learned from this story instead is that you should always ask for a replacement if your unit has something not working properly instead of thinking that all the units produced have your defect lol
 
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