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Review and Measurements of New Topping D50s DAC

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Hi there,

This is CJ from the Support team @ Apos. We chat briefly on apos.store regarding your interest in the TOPPING A50.
Based on what we were informed by TOPPING, A50 is a future product the company is currently working on.
Internally, they are aiming to have this in ready before the holidays. It does mean that the A50 won’t be available for another several months.
Planting easter eggs like that is actually what TOPPING is famous for. They'd like me to let you know that they are glad you noticed about the A50.

In the meantime, feel free to let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.
Sincerely,
CJ
 

Veri

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Double blind test though ? :)
Sorry but no, this was quite a while ago. But if you check out amir's dashboards of the ifi products so far they all measure more or less the same with their old bb1796 chip, which measures far from stellar. I believe DACs in amir's blue/top section will definitely surpass it but no, don't have the blind test to back it up unfortunately.
 

Music1969

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Sorry but no, this was quite a while ago. But if you check out amir's dashboards of the ifi products so far they all measure more or less the same with their old bb1796 chip, which measures far from stellar. I believe DACs in amir's blue/top section will definitely surpass it but no, don't have the blind test to back it up unfortunately.
I was just poking fun, nothing too serious.
 
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It's a suspicious shop with nothing about the company.
I've purchased two things from them and had good luck personally. It seems like SHENZHENAUDIO sells through amazon and other places as well, I'm not sure if all the transactions in the US are handled by "apos" or what, but they seem legit to me.
 

amirm

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I just got my D50s today. Is the multi-function rocker normally wobbly? I'm used to the stiff starting position of game controller joysticks.
Yes, that is normal.
 

amirm

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Hi @amirm

Do you still have the D50s?

Interested to know if you can (or already did) measure jitter with TOSlink input?
Hi. Yes, I still have. What I don't have is time to retest it. I have so much gear backed up to review and I need to get to them.

For now, I would absolutely doubt there is any audible concern regarding jitter on Toslink.
 

Music1969

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Thank you for the explanation.
In Japan, there are no customs duties or customs fees for products purchased from China. Customs and customs fees are required for purchases from the US and Europe.
No problem. It probably makes most sense that only people within the US purchase from Apos.
 

Toku

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I wonder if a rotary encoder would've been better than that switch?
An inexpensive rotary encoder uses two brush contacts A and B to detect the direction and step of rotation.
While using this type of rotary encoder, contact failure is likely to occur and the rotation direction cannot be recognized correctly. I experienced troubles with various devices.
Durability is inferior to button switches and joysticks.
 
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An inexpensive rotary encoder uses two brush contacts A and B to detect the direction and step of rotation.
While using this type of rotary encoder, contact failure is likely to occur and the rotation direction cannot be recognized correctly. I experienced troubles with various devices.
Durability is inferior to button switches and joysticks.
The counterpoint, obviously, is that you could just use a much more reliable optical encoder. I've seen <$30 mice include an optical encoder, so clearly it costs a fair bit less than $20 to implement one.

Ultimately, Topping could have used one, but decided to use a joystick. it's OK that they did, just not as nice as a knob or two, and people not liking the joystick is entirely fair.
 
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Just a quick question, maybe there's something banal i'm missing.
In the first graph (the THD+N ratio at 1kHz) we read a value of 0.000290%. Later in the THD+N ratio vs frequency graph, at 1kHz we read 0.0012%. Why such a difference? From the second graph, it seems also that the D50s is worse than the D50 :confused:
 
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The D50s like D50 uses an ESS DAC where with some exceptions, we have been suffering from an "IMD ESS hum" where at mid-levels, intermodulation distortion suddenly rises. Guess what? Topping has fixed this!
Small but possibly confusing typo: hum = hump
 
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Has anyone had problems playing audio through Bluetooth with an Android device? I want to know if my issue is an isolated case or not before I try to troubleshoot the BT connection.

Neither my Samsung Note5 (5.1) or Note9 (8.1) can play audio through the D50s, yet a stock iPhone 7 works without any issues. Both my Note5 and Note9 are rooted and modified though, so that may be related. However, neither has ever had any issues connecting to or playing audio on any other Bluetooth receiver I've used.

Some more details:
  • My Android devices can connect, but only once per D50s reboot. If I try changing the input then back to BT and connect again, it will fail to connect. It will also fail to connect if I restart the BT on my phone. Note: The frequency of the BT connection stays at 96kHz even after disconnecting.
  • On my Note9 (Android 8.1 Stock), the frequency changes to 96kHz when I try to play audio with LDAC. However, no audio plays through the D50s output.
  • On my Note 5 (Android 5.1 stock modified), I have the same problem as the Note9.

I only found 1 person who reported Bluetooth working on Android:
Honor View 10 - bluetooth (aptx-HD) - D50S

Bluetooth Connectivity Issue Conclusion:
My first D50s was faulty because it would not play aptX or LDAC on any of the 4 devices and 2 OSes I tested. The replacement I received works flawlessly.
Thanks to everyone here who helped me by testing their D50s!

What I learned from this experience:
Always test every feature of the device you purchased before the return or warranty period is over.
 
Last edited:

JohnYang1997

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Just a quick question, maybe there's something banal i'm missing.
In the first graph (the THD+N ratio at 1kHz) we read a value of 0.000290%. Later in the THD+N ratio vs frequency graph, at 1kHz we read 0.0012%. Why such a difference? From the second graph, it seems also that the D50s is worse than the D50 :confused:
Measurement bandwidth. 90khz is used when measuring thd+n vs frequency. There is high frequency modulated noise at around 28khz. But it's not important. Just read the multitone measurements.
 

Custard

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Has anyone had problems playing audio through Bluetooth with an Android device? I want to know if my issue is an isolated case or not before I try to troubleshoot the BT connection.

.....

I only found 1 person who reported Bluetooth working on Android:
How splendid - my first post here and I can be (slightly) useful!

HTC U11 connects fine using LDAC here. I can switch back and forth between BT and USB (from a Raspberry Pi 4) with music running on both without any issues. Haven't tested exhaustively...
 
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Measurement bandwidth. 90khz is used when measuring thd+n vs frequency. There is high frequency modulated noise at around 28khz. But it's not important. Just read the multitone measurements.
Where did you read of that noise at around 28kHz? The high frequency noise that you see in the multitone measurements goes well beyond -120dB (almost at -130dB) and shouldn't affect the measure in such way, here you go from 111dB SINAD to a 98dB, it means there's a bigger component in either distortion or noise, bigger than -110dB at least... Plus, the same noise is present also in the THD+N at 1kHz...
@amirm at which BW is conducted the first THD+N @ 1kHz test? It's due to a different BW the different results obtained in the two graphs? (otherwise, ideally the THD+N @ 1k should be equal to the value of the THD+N vs frequency read at the same value)
 

amirm

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@amirm at which BW is conducted the first THD+N @ 1kHz test? It's due to a different BW the different results obtained in the two graphs?
22.4 khz and yes.
 

JohnYang1997

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Where did you read of that noise at around 28kHz? The high frequency noise that you see in the multitone measurements goes well beyond -120dB (almost at -130dB) and shouldn't affect the measure in such way, here you go from 111dB SINAD to a 98dB, it means there's a bigger component in either distortion or noise, bigger than -110dB at least... Plus, the same noise is present also in the THD+N at 1kHz...
@amirm at which BW is conducted the first THD+N @ 1kHz test? It's due to a different BW the different results obtained in the two graphs? (otherwise, ideally the THD+N @ 1k should be equal to the value of the THD+N vs frequency read at the same value)
Again different bandwidth. Maybe you don't know what that means. I'll elaborate.
These two tests are THD+N tests. Meaning the noise is a very important part of the number. The N (noise) is the accumulated noise of BW * N0 or intergral of noise at all individual frequency. Thus, higher BW = higher noise = higher THD+N.
Why amir chose 90khz for thd+n vs frequency test. He chose it because the distortion after around 7khz will go down due to bandwidth limit, 3rd harmonic of 8khz which is 24khz for example will not show up in the thd+n vs frequency test if bandwidth is set to 22khz. However this leads to the first issue the number is constantly higher.
There maybe way around it like thd no n vs frequency, separate spectrum of 10khz etc. But generally you only need to look at dynamic range, use it to calculate noise floor, and the multitone test. That's all you hear in real world.
 
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