May I assume that none of those "some Linn enthusiast" has ever actually done a true ears-only comparison? If they have, could you please provide a cite? If they haven't, could you please stop spreading nonsense and superstition?
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Review and Measurements of Linn Akurate DSM DAC/Streamer
- Thread starter amirm
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DSJR
Major Contributor
Larger Linn dealers usually specialise and don't have much choice at this level unless that's changed in recent times.
Cognitive bias doesn’t care whether you are daft as a brush or not.
Keith
Keith
So no, as usual, there’s no evidence to back the extraordinary claim.
I’ll never understand what motivates the deliberate enstupidation of others.
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Do you own any Linn devices, are you a Linn enthusiast yourself or do you base that assertion on a synthetic fuzzy impression that you build reading about Linn owners on the net?
As a Linn owner (see my previous posts about this device in this thread), I should be flattered. But, frankly, that sentence doesn't make a lot of sense.
"Linn enthusiasts", by definition, are primed to purchase Linn devices.
"listen very carefully and do comparisons" doesn't mean that they are competent. I don't think we have any kind of data showing that "Linn enthusiasts" are more discerning than, say, "Bose enthusiasts".
Likewise, I haven't seen data showing an inverse correlation between Linn enthusiasm and stupidity.
In my own subjective opinion, any kind of "brand enthusiasm" encroaches on stupidity's territory or, possibly, demonstrates an inclination to be especially vulnerable to marketing or hearsay. But that's subjective.
About that particular device, at the time it was released, the following can be said
- it was fairly expensive, some may say overpriced.
- it did perform quite well, especially for the time (as objectively demonstrated by Amir). It is a big positive given that the vast majority of expensive, niche, or slightly niche high-end devices have been either somewhat disappointing or pure rip-offs.
- it had, and still has, a plethora of inputs/outputs.
- its firmware and software are still supported and updated.
- after years of use, it still works and feels as good as new. In a way, it is also a positive given a few other much cheaper devices I own have suffered from fading screens, scratchy pots, and other minor issues. That being said, cycling low-end devices would probably have been cheaper on the whole.
Audibly, it is nothing special. It does its job and probably will continue to do it until I am dead. Looking back I would buy it again, but I wouldn't buy its sibling amplifier again as it has shown clear audible limitations in some use case scenarios.
Linn have made some horrible loudspeakers,
Linn Komri loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements Like the massive Snell XA Reference loudspeaker, also reviewed in this issue, the Linn Komri was too bulky to lift off the ground for the usual set of quasi-anechoic measurements I take with the DRA Labs MLSSA system. The presence of a floor reflection will therefore...
www.stereophile.com
Linn Majik 109 loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements The Linn Majik 109's voltage sensitivity is specified as 88dB/W/m at a single frequency, 1kHz. I prefer a broadband figure, as the sensitivity at one specific frequency can be misleading. My estimate of the Linn's B-weighted sensitivity was significantly lower than the...
www.stereophile.com
Perhaps Linn enthusiasts only compare to other Linn loudspeakers?
Keith
MAB
Major Contributor
Good grief. When you say 'enthusiast', I rather think of cult. Linn customers are just as gullible as the ordinary audiophile customer, with the added baggage of misplaced brand loyalty.
I used to sell Linn to those enthusiasts. Linn made some incredibly bad sounding speakers that sold for mega, and surrounded it with nonsense ecosystem of amplifiers, plugin modules, and other electronics that also sold for mega. Even the turntables are a copy of an Ariston. It couldn't be more the opposite of what you say.
I got out of sales before Linn made streamers. Their approach to streamers was very cult-like too, which is typical of their uncritical enthusiast base who will pay $10k or more for a device that plays digital files and sounds no different than the competition.
MAB
Major Contributor
He has some of that Linn audiophile speaker cable:
Markaudio CHN 110 building and comparisons with Genelec 8340 SAM monitors
Now home after visiting Umeå symphony orkestra playing ” The fire bird ” by Igor Stravinsky and music by Philip Glass . Compairing at home - the sound is about the same on good recordings as I just experienced in the concert hall, and applauding after the concert sounds very natural on...
www.audiosciencereview.com
DSJR
Major Contributor
Linn owners are usually intelligent and 'nice' people on the whole in my experience BUT and with deepest respect to @Tangband here, I'd politely suggest that their windows of direct comparison are small and narrow, simply because the dealers (in the UK certainly) have little or nothing with which to directly compare. It's rather like Bang & Olufsen in the UK, where up to the late 90's or so, they just about tolerated some of their shops selling other gear, but bit by bit the thumbscrews began to turn with B&O dealers having to make separate shop-in-shop rooms (not so much displays as Bose wanted) to present the range, suitably decorated in the company style. As of the mid noughties or so, the entire retail operation became a franchise affair, with 'solus' dealers ONLY selling that brand and no other, eventually employing franchisees I gather with little to zero knowledge in electronics or audio matters, so better to train them in their way.
I'm not saying Linn is like this, but to get best margins you do need to do a certain amount of business with them and as I understand it still, a few LP12 Sondeks plus update kits for same per year won't cut it. A few audio companies only give best margins if a certain sales turnover threshold is reached and one company still does a pay up front pro-forma account situation if you're a small concern...
i can think of one London dealer which has mostly it seems, often HiFi News recommended gear at huge prices as well as some Linn and Naim Statement ranges on dem. I believe it's because of the location and prospective turnover of said dealer rather than blind brand loyalty. It's certainly done both brands no harm to bite the bullet and allow these two brands to be let loose amongst the imported expensive bling they sell there
I'm not saying Linn is like this, but to get best margins you do need to do a certain amount of business with them and as I understand it still, a few LP12 Sondeks plus update kits for same per year won't cut it. A few audio companies only give best margins if a certain sales turnover threshold is reached and one company still does a pay up front pro-forma account situation if you're a small concern...
i can think of one London dealer which has mostly it seems, often HiFi News recommended gear at huge prices as well as some Linn and Naim Statement ranges on dem. I believe it's because of the location and prospective turnover of said dealer rather than blind brand loyalty. It's certainly done both brands no harm to bite the bullet and allow these two brands to be let loose amongst the imported expensive bling they sell there
DSJR
Major Contributor
I've just remembered what we 'replaced' our demo sets of Linn K20 cable with - Nordost (once Chord Company) Flatline.....He has some of that Linn audiophile speaker cable:
We had this argument of wire-audibility some time back. I'm not sure what is more outrageous; the assertion that the cables dramatically change the sound or the statement:Markaudio CHN 110 building and comparisons with Genelec 8340 SAM monitors
Now home after visiting Umeå symphony orkestra playing ” The fire bird ” by Igor Stravinsky and music by Philip Glass . Compairing at home - the sound is about the same on good recordings as I just experienced in the concert hall, and applauding after the concert sounds very natural on...
Oh the effing shame, looking back...
I'd love to know why though, but the K20 and Naim A5 cables did seem to 'sound' different, the K20 'sounding' thicker and muffled sometimes (no idea why but I suppose once programmed to notice this, it's there in every dem...). Interestingly, the 'best' Linn cable then was the then cheap (and free with the Classik one box unit) K10 in two 5m lengths, which Kabeldirekt and others sell for a couple of quid or so per metre. Great stuff and the copper is clean and not grubby as the Linn K400 and K600 nightmares were (ghastly stuff but the sheeple believers bought it in massive amounts).
K10 equivalent below - it could be got from the makers with your name on it if bought in enough quantity -
This stuff works with anything and has no 'sound' at all. The 1.5mm version works well too in short runs fed from an older but still working Technics mini system I was gifted and which seems to need a small gauge cable in very short (up to 3m runs) and there's also a 4mm cross section. Linn in their specs seem to indicate the OUTER diameter of the cable conductors INCLUDING insulation though as their 4mm stuff looks decidedly 2.5mm to me...
My system evolved to a fairly decent Linn setup in the 90's/00's (Karik/Kairn/LK100's/Active Kabers), i remember adding LK400 at some point, the difference was quite substantial, mainly speed and tightness. On the whole i don't find a massive difference in cables but my audio 'memory' to A/B isn't what it used to be. Having said that, buying and selling through the years i did get some crazily expensive LFD speaker cables traded in in PX which annoyingly did make quite a bit of difference, although i think they probably cost more than my speakers and amp combined. Naim used to state that using non-Naim cables would invalidate the warranty and were carefully factored in to the overall stats which may explain some 'improvements' in systems.
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