they sound very good for in-walls.
Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
they sound very good for in-walls.
more the latter. he was originally contemplating some B&W CWM7.4 and i believe the Revel's will outperform those. Probably quite substantially.Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
For the first time in my life, I am considering an in-wall speaker as being something that could be viable!Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? My Answer: YES! Or that most in-walls are junk (MY answer: YES!) and these sound good? My Answer: YES!
I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
As I explained in the introduction, the measurements reflect installation in infinite wall. While real installation won't be as big of a wall, it will be very close. This is a special measurement mode for Klippel NFS that performs this magic.I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?
Edit: Can measurements performed on a speaker not installed in it's intended environment provide meaningful data ?
It appears to have been installed in a "wall like structure", something Amirm strives to do by fabricating it for each "in-wall" speaker test. It is for comparison purposes. On any speaker measurement, it is for comparison purposes. "Your Milage may vary" because most placements & positions are not identical (even with the various DSP and EQ's available). Jeez!I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?
Edit: Can measurements performed on a speaker not installed in it's intended environment provide meaningful data ?
The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .
2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image.
It's an issue I had to consider recently on a rebuild. The problem I have is that all the walls on the ground floor of my house are brick or cinder block, which is common in the UK and EU, so mounting anything into a wall is near impossible.The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.
To optimize inwall loudspeakers for 2-channel hifi-sound demands two things ( point 1 and 2 ):
1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .
2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image. Those early HF reflections should be damped about 70 cm or more away from the tweeter to not muddle the sound.
This is exactly the case what happens when you are recording real instruments with 2 good microphones. If you have early reflections in the recording from the walls or floor within 2 ms ( 70 cm or less ) the recording gonna be indistinct, in the same way untreated inwall loudspeaker sounds.
3. Further - 2 channel music playing is a flawed system that need some help from later reflections ( 20-25 ms ) to make the illusion better . The opposite is needed for 5.1 recordings/movies where everything on the walls/floor should be damped.
Drawing conclusions from this, owning inwall loudspeakers a couple of years ago, is that for two channel listening, inwall loudspeakers are not as good as optimal setup freestanding loudspeakers . The lllusion of the recorded event from the inwall loudspeaker will be smaller.
4. The SBIR advantage from inwall loudspeaker is real, but the sound impact from this is much smaller than the flaws if we are talking 2 channel listening.
I can't say I agree. There are good speakers if you want to pay for them, like the PMC ci140. All the prices are online, so if you don't check your quotation it's your own fault. A lot of these products are very old, which implies that there isn't much of a market for them.Keep in mind that in-wall speakers are predominantly sold on the basis of how they look (with grill on) and how much margin they provide for the custom installer! As such, a lot of terrible in-wall speakers are out there.
Hmmm. In wall speakers for book binders is a rather narrow niche.I've always wondered about the best way of mounting in-wall speakers in regards to the cavity space behind them. I've got some Sonace in-wall speakers in my press room but the wall backs up to the bindery and at higher SPL the distortion is fine in the press room but the resonances in the bindery are unbearable.
These look like a definite step up of course SQ wise.
I wonder if a kind of ideal is wall mount monitors (e.g., Genelec 8341) angled just right (even including down a tad to minimize floor reflections) for LCR and inwalls and in ceilings for all other channels. that’s just speaking on main speakers. Then on subwoofers inwalls and inceilings have an almost greater appeal in that they get rid of the giant eyesores and even facilitate using variety of heights rather than basically just one for reduction of nodes. Of course, it’s a lot easier to have 4 in ceiling and inwall subwoofers than 4 giant black cubes distributed around floor.The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.
To optimize inwall loudspeakers for 2-channel hifi-sound demands two things ( point 1 and 2 ):
1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .
2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image. Those early HF reflections should be damped about 70 cm or more away from the tweeter to not muddle the sound.
This is exactly the case what happens when you are recording real instruments with 2 good microphones. If you have early reflections in the recording from the walls or floor within 2 ms ( 70 cm or less ) the recording gonna be indistinct, in the same way untreated inwall loudspeaker sounds.
3. Further - 2 channel music playing is a flawed system that need some help from later reflections ( 20-25 ms ) to make the illusion better . The opposite is needed for 5.1 recordings/movies where everything on the walls/floor should be damped.
Drawing conclusions from this, owning inwall loudspeakers a couple of years ago, is that for two channel listening, inwall loudspeakers are not as good as optimal setup freestanding loudspeakers . The lllusion of the recorded event from the inwall loudspeaker will be smaller.
4. The SBIR advantage from inwall loudspeaker is real, but the sound impact from this is much smaller than the flaws if we are talking 2 channel listening.
Horizontally or vertically? Former would limit you to 20 degrees listening window. Vertically would work fine.I wonder how it would work as a center channel with a pair of Revel F36’s?