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Revel W553L Measurements (In-wall Speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 78 63.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 33 27.0%

  • Total voters
    122

gbrnole

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Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
more the latter. he was originally contemplating some B&W CWM7.4 and i believe the Revel's will outperform those. Probably quite substantially.
 

EJ3

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Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? My Answer: YES! Or that most in-walls are junk (MY answer: YES!) and these sound good? My Answer: YES!
For the first time in my life, I am considering an in-wall speaker as being something that could be viable!
 

JaMaSt

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Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?

Edit: Can measurements performed on a speaker not installed in it's intended environment provide meaningful data ?
 
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amirm

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I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?

Edit: Can measurements performed on a speaker not installed in it's intended environment provide meaningful data ?
As I explained in the introduction, the measurements reflect installation in infinite wall. While real installation won't be as big of a wall, it will be very close. This is a special measurement mode for Klippel NFS that performs this magic.
 

EJ3

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I don't see that these were measured "in walls". I have to imagine that installing them in a wall cavity will have an impact on measurements and sound?

Edit: Can measurements performed on a speaker not installed in it's intended environment provide meaningful data ?
It appears to have been installed in a "wall like structure", something Amirm strives to do by fabricating it for each "in-wall" speaker test. It is for comparison purposes. On any speaker measurement, it is for comparison purposes. "Your Milage may vary" because most placements & positions are not identical (even with the various DSP and EQ's available). Jeez!
If you can do better, please demonstrate your skills to us...
 

Dzhaughn

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Isn't the bass extension a bit lacking? I thought one wants to cross over to subwoofers at around 80Hz. Or is that overblown?

Revel bookshelfs, among others, manage to do this without getting into terrible distortion.
 

Tangband

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A comparison of Genelec 8030c and this inwall loudspeaker regarding distortion.
FB9405C4-0884-4C00-B05A-A03A3DDF5FC7.png
95075204-4BAD-46FD-B7D1-9F1F7E8AD7F8.png
 

Tangband

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Is your thought that in-walls sound worse than a similarly measuring freestanding speaker? Or that most in-walls are junk and these sound good?
The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.

To optimize inwall loudspeakers for 2-channel hifi-sound demands two things ( point 1 and 2 ):

1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .

2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image. Those early HF reflections should be damped about 70 cm or more away from the tweeter to not muddle the sound.
This is exactly the case what happens when you are recording real instruments with 2 good microphones. If you have early reflections in the recording from the walls or floor within 2 ms ( 70 cm or less ) the recording gonna be indistinct, in the same way untreated inwall loudspeaker sounds.

3. Further - 2 channel music playing is a flawed system that need some help from later reflections ( 20-25 ms ) to make the illusion better . The opposite is needed for 5.1 recordings/movies where everything on the walls/floor should be damped.
Drawing conclusions from this, owning inwall loudspeakers a couple of years ago, is that for two channel listening, inwall loudspeakers are not as good as optimal setup freestanding loudspeakers . The lllusion of the recorded event from the inwall loudspeaker will be smaller.

4. The SBIR advantage from inwall loudspeaker is real, but the sound impact from this is much smaller than the flaws if we are talking 2 channel listening.
 
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Balle Clorin

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is this supposed to work without A subwoofer? Very limited bass output, must sound terrible like this alone
 

Walter

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@amirm, I have to think that the vast majority of people who buy in-wall speakers care enough about appearance that they will never remove the grills. While I totally agree with testing all other speakers without the grill, I really think it would make a lot more sense to leave them on in this case. However, it seems you do not agree?
 

fineMen

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1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .
2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image.

1) they should be mounted on two connected walls 'over the edge'. The pattern would be different from the traditional 60° angle, but still quite usable, maybe even preferable like excessive 'toe in'. No need for cluttering the room with MDF constructions ...
2) nope, to the contrary. As the speaker baffle can be considered rigid, to prolong it outwards with an equally rigid plain wall is logical. To change the rigidity, as seen by the wave, by felt would change the acoustic environment, hence pose an obstacle, generating--reflection. Counter-intuitive, but true.

I wonder if the back of the panel was covered during the tests.
 

DWI

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The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.

To optimize inwall loudspeakers for 2-channel hifi-sound demands two things ( point 1 and 2 ):

1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .

2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image. Those early HF reflections should be damped about 70 cm or more away from the tweeter to not muddle the sound.
This is exactly the case what happens when you are recording real instruments with 2 good microphones. If you have early reflections in the recording from the walls or floor within 2 ms ( 70 cm or less ) the recording gonna be indistinct, in the same way untreated inwall loudspeaker sounds.

3. Further - 2 channel music playing is a flawed system that need some help from later reflections ( 20-25 ms ) to make the illusion better . The opposite is needed for 5.1 recordings/movies where everything on the walls/floor should be damped.
Drawing conclusions from this, owning inwall loudspeakers a couple of years ago, is that for two channel listening, inwall loudspeakers are not as good as optimal setup freestanding loudspeakers . The lllusion of the recorded event from the inwall loudspeaker will be smaller.

4. The SBIR advantage from inwall loudspeaker is real, but the sound impact from this is much smaller than the flaws if we are talking 2 channel listening.
It's an issue I had to consider recently on a rebuild. The problem I have is that all the walls on the ground floor of my house are brick or cinder block, which is common in the UK and EU, so mounting anything into a wall is near impossible.

There are various slim on-wall speakers, in particular by PMC, but it seems that this type of speaker is just pretty useless for two channel audio that, let's remember, was invented in the 1930s to image voice horizontally in the cinema. So, unless you put these left and right in the wall facing the listening position, they aren't going to cut the mustard and then you might as well have a pair of normal speakers.
Keep in mind that in-wall speakers are predominantly sold on the basis of how they look (with grill on) and how much margin they provide for the custom installer! As such, a lot of terrible in-wall speakers are out there.
I can't say I agree. There are good speakers if you want to pay for them, like the PMC ci140. All the prices are online, so if you don't check your quotation it's your own fault. A lot of these products are very old, which implies that there isn't much of a market for them.

I went for a new product. The primary aim was miniaturisation whilst retaining very good sound quality with very clever DSP. To be user-installable, each speaker has to be a complete audio system, with amplifier and full streaming capabilities, operated wirelessly. No speaker wires, just connect a 24v transformer to your lighting power and plug-n-play in 5 minutes. Not in addition to the lights, they are also the lights. App and voice control, with microphones built in.

I'm a complete novice on home cinema, but my impression was that the limiting factor was the poor sound quality when you send it from the TV to a bluetooth speaker, which is what Sony and LG want you to do, sending to a set of their soundbar and rear speakers. Fortunately for $200 the Apple TV+ allows me to send the sound via Airplay.

With so much more movie streaming and Dolby Atmos I suspect there will be far more sophisticated products turning up, but it takes time and money and multi-disciplinary engineering.
 

BostonJack

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I've always wondered about the best way of mounting in-wall speakers in regards to the cavity space behind them. I've got some Sonace in-wall speakers in my press room but the wall backs up to the bindery and at higher SPL the distortion is fine in the press room but the resonances in the bindery are unbearable.

These look like a definite step up of course SQ wise.
Hmmm. In wall speakers for book binders is a rather narrow niche. ;)
 

radio3

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Aug 20, 2020
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The sound from inwall loudspeakers can be very good if you use them for movies, looking at a ”flat” picture. The sound will be the same as the picture - it will sound flat. And not good enough for two channel recordings, but for movies it will be fine.

To optimize inwall loudspeakers for 2-channel hifi-sound demands two things ( point 1 and 2 ):

1. The walls where the inwall loudspeakers are mounted must be slightly angled at the listening position, for both L and R . This can be done DIY with new MDF walls .

2. Each inwall loudspeaker must have some feltmat around them because early HF reflections will otherwise ruin the stereo image. Those early HF reflections should be damped about 70 cm or more away from the tweeter to not muddle the sound.
This is exactly the case what happens when you are recording real instruments with 2 good microphones. If you have early reflections in the recording from the walls or floor within 2 ms ( 70 cm or less ) the recording gonna be indistinct, in the same way untreated inwall loudspeaker sounds.

3. Further - 2 channel music playing is a flawed system that need some help from later reflections ( 20-25 ms ) to make the illusion better . The opposite is needed for 5.1 recordings/movies where everything on the walls/floor should be damped.
Drawing conclusions from this, owning inwall loudspeakers a couple of years ago, is that for two channel listening, inwall loudspeakers are not as good as optimal setup freestanding loudspeakers . The lllusion of the recorded event from the inwall loudspeaker will be smaller.

4. The SBIR advantage from inwall loudspeaker is real, but the sound impact from this is much smaller than the flaws if we are talking 2 channel listening.
I wonder if a kind of ideal is wall mount monitors (e.g., Genelec 8341) angled just right (even including down a tad to minimize floor reflections) for LCR and inwalls and in ceilings for all other channels. that’s just speaking on main speakers. Then on subwoofers inwalls and inceilings have an almost greater appeal in that they get rid of the giant eyesores and even facilitate using variety of heights rather than basically just one for reduction of nodes. Of course, it’s a lot easier to have 4 in ceiling and inwall subwoofers than 4 giant black cubes distributed around floor.
 
OP
amirm

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I wonder how it would work as a center channel with a pair of Revel F36’s?
Horizontally or vertically? Former would limit you to 20 degrees listening window. Vertically would work fine.
 
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