Revel M16 vs. Focal Chora 806 for small room?

[Thomas savage]

Why don't you go for a pair of Elac DBR62, something like the Sanskritt V2 and a decent amp?

I'd second this , get these speakers and as much power as you can afford.

If you want to tinker try some PEQ and maybe some room correction software. I think this will bring you a lot more fun than what you have currently.

 

[napilopez]

By the way, just to illustrate the similarities between the Aria and Chora again, imported Amir's curves into REW. Only showing LW ER and SP to keep the graphs from being too cluttered. Also note I've recalculated the Klippels ER curve to match the computation used by Harman and I use in my measurements:

Keep in mind my nearfield bass summations tend to show a bit more bass energy than the NFS' measurements, but I still am inclined to believe the Chora has a tiny bit more bass. Also my chora measurements were made with on 15-degree intervals rather than 10 degrees, so its possible some of the vertical lobing isn't shown on the chora, though it still seems the aria is a bit more affected around 3K.

Still, it's pretty much a wash.

 

[DSJR]

Forget response plots for a minute while I tell a subjective but 'important' tale regarding power and the way it's delivered. We had in a Krell FPB 300 power amp to demonstrate (which I actually sold). For giggles, we connected it to a very cheap pair of Denon mini speakers, the type that went with their dinky DM-3 micro system (I think they were called SCM2's and no idea if it was a UK model or international). I've NEVER heard those tiny cheap boxes come to life with real stature and precision as they did when driven by that amp. The experience shook me frankly and bringing that memory to this thread, this is why I suggest an amp change would give the KEFs more of a chance and allow them to 'express themselves' better without the bottleneck further back. Once you do this, the sky's the limit on alternative speakers and then response plots might just begin to matter. I'll butt out now

 

[BillG]

I'd get the Revel M16 (I've a lot of trust in their parent company, Harman Kardon, and they look fantastic in white) and an amp that pump at least 100W peak into them. If you don't wish to spend a lot of money on an amp, never fear, cheap, clean, and powerful is here:

https://www.3e-audio.com/finished-amp/tpa32xx-all-in-one-amplifier/

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Your amplifier is rated at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms continuous at 10%thd

Are you referring to what I circled below? This is from the specs for the MA12070 used in my amp found here
https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...N.pdf?fileId=5546d46264a8de7e0164b750002861a5

At the end of the day, as others have mentioned, you are going to need more power. More power doesn't have a cost a lot of money. A good stereo receiver or integrated amplifier can provide plenty for your needs. It doesn't need to cost a lot (i.e., you can get a Yamaha R-S202 100 w/ch on Crutchfield right now for $129.95). Used is also a great option.

In sticking with bookshelves, I would lean toward the Focals of your two choices, as the 6.5" woofer and larger enclosure are going to provide more substantial, cleaner bass than the M16. If it were me, for the same money, I would wait and buy a pair of used M106s, which come up regularly for about $800

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.. At this point in my audio journey I'm pretty set on class D amps; I really appreciate the light weight and cool running. I was excited about this amp because it's an integrated with balanced xlr inputs, tone controls, and TINY.. for sub $200. I also thought that it's power doubling into 4ohms from 8ohms was a sign of a good power supply (?) and the ability to handle difficult loads. I was also expecting XLR to give me a lot more gain because of the higher voltage but that hasn't been the case with this amp, I don't know if that's normal. It seems that I have to max out my SMSL M500 dac to ~6.8 volts XLR to get the same volume as ~2 volts from the RCA. I've been keeping the XLR voltage at around 4.3 since I'm not sure if it's bad for my amp to send it more voltage.

I'd be willing to spend ~$500-$1000 for a class D amp and perhaps mate it to an RME ADI2 FS DAC. Then I can have my beloved tone controls, plus a full eq and headphone amp.. I'd be SET. Is there any reason that dac would not make a good pre? What makes a dac a good pre? Output voltage? I believe it'll put out ~6.9v max from XLR.

$800 for M106 is good! I usually see them for $1200-$1300 but there is a lot of appeal to buying new from a place with a 30-60 day return policy.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

I'm not sure you could say there's much in the way of a meaningful difference between the speakers especially considering the different measurement methods. It's been my experience that Focal's modern speakers all have a very similar sound to one another. Some differences here and there but they definitely have a 'house sound' imo (which is pretty neutral).

I also am not sure I'd take the manufacturer specs too seriously. For example, the Chora is rated to a little less bass extension and little less sensitivity, yet in soundstage network's measurements, it actually appears to be the opposite, with the chora having a little more bass and virtually equal sensitivity, though the chora is ahead a smidge (87 vs 86.8).

Chora in Red, Aria in black. Even though soundstage network's measurements are not accurate below 100Hz or so, you can see the Chora is trending towards a bit more bass. Could all be measurement variation though. the aria was measured between the tweeter and woofer, vs the tweeter for the chora.

View attachment 70041



Same as above, I woulnd't worry about that too much. I'd just make sure the speakers are precisely at the right height as the aria and chora are quite sensitivity to ear height (but being above the speaker is better than being below it).

The measurements are too close to call. Even in the preference score! Despite the difference in measurement technique, my preference scores for the Chora were extremely similar to those of the Aria.

The Aria got a 5.6 standard, 7.9 with sub, and 8.1 with sub and using the listening window.

My measurements of the Chora get a 5.7 standard, 7.7 with sub, and 8.1 using the listening window lol.

Basically, pick whichever you think is prettiest lol.

Yeah, initially I was leaning towards the Chora since I preferred it's looks.. thought it was a bit cleaner, more modern and love that carbon woofer. But then I decided to look at some pics of the Chora vs Aria and zoomed in on them on my big screen until they were as close to real life dimensions as I could get them.. it appears the Aria's tweeter actually sits about an inch closer to the woofer making it easier to get close to vertically on axis. In my room I should be able to get the tweeters ~3.5" above my ears from about 6 feet away (on 32" stands; which I need to have everything fit right in my room).. I'll have to calculate what that angle is. I suppose I could tilt my stands forward if needed..

Was checking out the Loudspeaker Explorer (below) and yeah those numbers look close. The M16 looks a good bit lower in sensitivity but it does have that 3db hump at 100hz, which I have a hunch I'd want to bring down in my room.. which could free up some power I guess. The M16 tweeter would also be perfectly at ear height. Focal turns me on a bit more to look at though

 

[CDMC]

Are you referring to what I circled below? This is from the specs for the MA12070 used in my amp found here
https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...N.pdf?fileId=5546d46264a8de7e0164b750002861a5
View attachment 70161



Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.. At this point in my audio journey I'm pretty set on class D amps; I really appreciate the light weight and cool running. I was excited about this amp because it's an integrated with balanced xlr inputs, tone controls, and TINY.. for sub $200. I also thought that it's power doubling into 4ohms from 8ohms was a sign of a good power supply (?) and the ability to handle difficult loads. I was also expecting XLR to give me a lot more gain because of the higher voltage but that hasn't been the case with this amp, I don't know if that's normal. It seems that I have to max out my SMSL M500 dac to ~6.8 volts XLR to get the same volume as ~2 volts from the RCA. I've been keeping the XLR voltage at around 4.3 since I'm not sure if it's bad for my amp to send it more voltage.

I'd be willing to spend ~$500-$1000 for a class D amp and perhaps mate it to an RME ADI2 FS DAC. Then I can have my beloved tone controls, plus a full eq and headphone amp.. I'd be SET. Is there any reason that dac would not make a good pre? What makes a dac a good pre? Output voltage? I believe it'll put out ~6.9v max from XLR.

$800 for M106 is good! I usually see them for $1200-$1300 but there is a lot of appeal to buying new from a place with a 30-60 day return policy.

I made a guess as to the number based on the THD at 10%. Somehow I missed the spec at 1% which is right above the number you circled 35w @ 8ohms/60w @4 ohms.

I don't know much about the RME ADI2 FS, but looking at it, it appears it would make a great preamp and headphone amp. The only thing it appears to be missing is a remote control. For some that is important (me), others could care less.

Class D is an excellent choice for your wants. At your price point, you have the choice of Hypex and Purifi. The short is that Bruno Putzeys developed both, the NCore being the second generation, then he left Hypex and started Purifi and created the third generation. Both are excellent and while the Purifi measures a bit better, it is highly questionable if there is any actual audible difference, as the Ncores also measure so well. (It is somewhat like a discussion of being rich, being worth $20 billion is more than $10 billion, but at that point, there really is no difference).

I am fond of the VTV amplifiers as the value leader. They have corrected their early grounding and failure to follow proper Pin 1 wiring. $499 gets you the NCore NC252MP with 180 w 8 ohms and 250 4 ohms, $689 gets you the NCore NC502MP with twice the power, and $959 gets you the Purifi. Others are very fond of the Audiophonics amps. At a bit higher price you get into Nord with nicer cases. Higher than that gets you March, with very careful attention to detail.

Finally, I wouldn't get too caught up on the whether or not your DAC can output 4 volts or 7 volts. Consumer amps are generally designed with about 25db of gain and made to work with 2v single ended and 4v XLR. Most will put out full output with less than 2v/4v. Benchmark has some great technical explanations, here is one explaining the differences in single ended, balanced and the different voltage standards between consumer and pro audio:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces

The bottom line is that unless you have a unique situation with very high emf in your listening environment or very long runs, there is no advantage to using balanced connections in a home system (aside from knowing you are getting an SN improvement that you can't hear). Using RCA inputs will result in a SN noise ratio of in excess of 100db, in excess of your listening room's dynamic range, 16bit audio, and most components. Keep in mind, that the dynamic range of the best home listening rooms is in the neighborhood of 12 bits (72 db, which means if you have a very quiet listening room at 30 db background noise, you would have to exceed 102db peaks listening before you get beyond 12 bits of resolution in your room).

 

[CDMC]

I noticed in your photo that it looks like you have a Schiit DAC already. I will just add another two cents of what I would do if it were me. I would keep the Schiit DAC, purchase a Schiit SYS passive preamp for $49 and the VTV NC252MP for $499. Compared to purchasing RME, this will leave you with an extra $1,100 in your pocket, plus some change from getting an amp at the bottom of your amp budget. Take the difference and go get a used pair of Revel M126be speakers (there is a pair for $2400 right now). Any equalization you want or need to do can be done on your computer. This would give you an end game pair of speakers. At a later date if you want, you could then add a preamp with a built in crossover/DAC/DSP, or purchase an external high pass crossover, then add subwoofers, something like a Rythmik F12 (or better yet a pair), which will give you a world class setup.

 

[JJSEA]

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I am a newbie and bought a DA-8S, and find it doesn't have quite enough power for my bookshelf speakers (an old pair of ProAc Studio 110s with 88db sensitivity). I listen mostly to classical music and I like it for instrumental music, but I find it not fully satisfying for orchestral music.

The MA12070 requires a 26V power supply to give its maximum output, but the DA-8S comes with only a 24V power supply. If you look at the first graph on page 53 of the data sheet, it shows that with 24V and 1% THD+N, the maximum output is only 30W.

I decided to buy a Hypex NCore NC252MP-based amplifier. I chose IOM, because they have a smaller form factor which will fit better in the space I have available (and I'm not in the US), but VTV looks very good value. It's currently on its way, so I cannot yet report back on the improvement. People seem to have different opinions of the usefulness of balanced connections in a home environment, but Hypex are clear in their recommendation for a balanced connection.

So my two cents would be: the DA-8S is not going to be satisfactory long term, so it doesn't make sense to compromise your long-term choice of speaker to fit in with a temporary power amp limitation. So if I were you I would buy the VTV NC252MP amp and see how I liked the LS50 speakers with that.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

S'cuse me for butting in, but your amp isn't getting anywhere near the full potential of the KEFs in my opinion. I'd budget for the amp first before fully condemning the speakers, even if the KEF's are a little clinical and 'bright' in balance perhaps? High quality power is cheap these days, whether it be a Pro style amp with gain controls on the front, or say for example, a Yamaha integrated (may not have the audiophile 'charm' but technically I think most are fine and all of them would give far greater headroom).

I think many would be amazed how quickly the power can be used up. 30W these days is absolutely nothing and those amp makers that do claim it's enough, are usually encouraging soft clipping as a form of audible compression - emphasises 'air and space' methinks as peaks are smoothed off I reckon.

Forget response plots for a minute while I tell a subjective but 'important' tale regarding power and the way it's delivered. We had in a Krell FPB 300 power amp to demonstrate (which I actually sold). For giggles, we connected it to a very cheap pair of Denon mini speakers, the type that went with their dinky DM-3 micro system (I think they were called SCM2's and no idea if it was a UK model or international). I've NEVER heard those tiny cheap boxes come to life with real stature and precision as they did when driven by that amp. The experience shook me frankly and bringing that memory to this thread, this is why I suggest an amp change would give the KEFs more of a chance and allow them to 'express themselves' better without the bottleneck further back. Once you do this, the sky's the limit on alternative speakers and then response plots might just begin to matter. I'll butt out now

Luckily there's an easy way for me to test this... My old 54lb Rotel RSX-1067 receiver puts out 120w x 2 into 8ohms @ 1% THD. It's been handling communal living room duties but I hooked it up to my LS50s in my room last night.. It was ok.. didn't really dramatically open up the LS50 or anything. The bass was meatier, thicker, "bloomier" I guess I'd call it.. Big, low bass certainly felt more effortless.. and there was more headroom. But on the other hand; bass is tighter and more textured on my DA-8S. There seems to be more clarity, definition and crispness overall with the SMSL amp (for whatever reason) which I prefer.

There's just something a little restrained and closed-in feeling about the LS50. They're tight, inert little boxes.. I guess I want notes to decay a touch slower. I don't find them all that bright, I have the treble turned up +1db even. From memory the Q100 were tonally weirder at times, but they made me smile more. I wouldn't call the Q100 bass loose, but it sounded like those woofers moved a bit more freely.. or maybe a part of me misses the more resonant cabinet? From memory, the Q100 were also a bit wider sounding I believe. Vocals and prominent instruments were often very forward.. in a somewhat exaggerated way which made them really engaging and satisfying at times, and a bit strange other times. The upper registers of cellos often sounded "kazoo-like" haha.. and at night I sometimes fall asleep to rainstorm sounds on youtube.. the sound of the rain droplets hitting the ground was always slightly unnatural somehow. LS50 sounds more tonally realistic to me. I wonder if it has something to do with the broad lifts from ~700-1.5k and ~4k-10.5k shown on Amir's measurements of the Q100. I haven't listened to the Q100 for a month now that I've been getting accustomed to the LS50. It'll be interesting to listen to them again.. who knows, they might sound really really off to me now.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

I'd second this , get these speakers and as much power as you can afford.

If you want to tinker try some PEQ and maybe some room correction software. I think this will bring you a lot more fun than what you have currently.

I like staring at the Focals and Revels more and this is a big factor for me

I'd get the Revel M16 (I've a lot of trust in their parent company, Harman Kardon, and they look fantastic in white) and an amp that pump at least 100W peak into them. If you don't wish to spend a lot of money on an amp, never fear, cheap, clean, and powerful is here:

https://www.3e-audio.com/finished-amp/tpa32xx-all-in-one-amplifier/

That's neat, never heard of them but I need a remote!

I don't know much about the RME ADI2 FS, but looking at it, it appears it would make a great preamp and headphone amp. The only thing it appears to be missing is a remote control. For some that is important (me), others could care less.

It does have a remote. You may have been looking at the "Pro" version which might not have a remote?

Class D is an excellent choice for your wants. At your price point, you have the choice of Hypex and Purifi. The short is that Bruno Putzeys developed both, the NCore being the second generation, then he left Hypex and started Purifi and created the third generation. Both are excellent and while the Purifi measures a bit better, it is highly questionable if there is any actual audible difference, as the Ncores also measure so well. (It is somewhat like a discussion of being rich, being worth $20 billion is more than $10 billion, but at that point, there really is no difference).

I am fond of the VTV amplifiers as the value leader. They have corrected their early grounding and failure to follow proper Pin 1 wiring. $499 gets you the NCore NC252MP with 180 w 8 ohms and 250 4 ohms, $689 gets you the NCore NC502MP with twice the power, and $959 gets you the Purifi. Others are very fond of the Audiophonics amps. At a bit higher price you get into Nord with nicer cases. Higher than that gets you March, with very careful attention to detail.

Ahh.. I was wondering about Hypex vs Purifi. Yeah, you've given me some enticing choices. I've had my eye on the March Audio and Nord amps but I do like that this Nord has both XLR and RCA inputs https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/nord-one-mp-nc500-stereo-power-amp

I've also had my eye on this for if I decide I don't care about XLR but I don't know how it compares to Hypex units https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/edge-a2-300?technical

Finally, I wouldn't get too caught up on the whether or not your DAC can output 4 volts or 7 volts. Consumer amps are generally designed with about 25db of gain and made to work with 2v single ended and 4v XLR. Most will put out full output with less than 2v/4v. Benchmark has some great technical explanations, here is one explaining the differences in single ended, balanced and the different voltage standards between consumer and pro audio:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces

The bottom line is that unless you have a unique situation with very high emf in your listening environment or very long runs, there is no advantage to using balanced connections in a home system (aside from knowing you are getting an SN improvement that you can't hear). Using RCA inputs will result in a SN noise ratio of in excess of 100db, in excess of your listening room's dynamic range, 16bit audio, and most components. Keep in mind, that the dynamic range of the best home listening rooms is in the neighborhood of 12 bits (72 db, which means if you have a very quiet listening room at 30 db background noise, you would have to exceed 102db peaks listening before you get beyond 12 bits of resolution in your room).

Ok good to know, that opens up more options for dacs as preamps. XLR is one of those things that's kind of gear fetish for me I guess.. I like that it's technically "better", I like the way looks, the way it feels clicking in.. and it's well within my budget so why not?

I noticed in your photo that it looks like you have a Schiit DAC already. I will just add another two cents of what I would do if it were me. I would keep the Schiit DAC, purchase a Schiit SYS passive preamp for $49 and the VTV NC252MP for $499. Compared to purchasing RME, this will leave you with an extra $1,100 in your pocket, plus some change from getting an amp at the bottom of your amp budget. Take the difference and go get a used pair of Revel M126be speakers (there is a pair for $2400 right now). Any equalization you want or need to do can be done on your computer. This would give you an end game pair of speakers. At a later date if you want, you could then add a preamp with a built in crossover/DAC/DSP, or purchase an external high pass crossover, then add subwoofers, something like a Rythmik F12 (or better yet a pair), which will give you a world class setup.

Yes, that's my Modi 3 which I've been happy with for the past year. It's my first standalone DAC which I bought because of the measurements here, and it's proving to be a lot less finicky than my M500 v2 that I'm currently trying out.

Schiit SYS wouldn't cut it for me because it doesn't have a remote but I would seriously consider a Saga+
https://www.schiit.com/products/saga-2 Unfortunately they no longer sell the $100 cheaper solid state Saga S but admittedly I am curious to try tubes.. And because I want bass/treble tone controls at the very least, I'd also get the Loki https://www.schiit.com/products/loki

Yeah, the appeal of the RME is the eq.. endless tweaking for different gear/room set-ups. And I also look at it as an educational tool as I have almost no experience eq'ing. True, I would be interested in playing with eq on a computer but I much prefer the idea of having eq as part of a DAC or some other standalone unit like a MiniDSP for the long run. This way I can run everything through it.. tv, bluetooth modules, Chromecast Audio, etc..

$2400 speakers oooffff.... I don't know, I'll think about it For now I'd like to stick with a no sub set-up to keep things simple and because I believe I won't need them to be satisfied in this space. Rythmik would be on the short list though. There is a small space between my left speaker and that drawer that would fit a cute little B&W ASW608 though..

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I am a newbie and bought a DA-8S, and find it doesn't have quite enough power for my bookshelf speakers (an old pair of ProAc Studio 110s with 88db sensitivity). I listen mostly to classical music and I like it for instrumental music, but I find it not fully satisfying for orchestral music.

The MA12070 requires a 26V power supply to give its maximum output, but the DA-8S comes with only a 24V power supply. If you look at the first graph on page 53 of the data sheet, it shows that with 24V and 1% THD+N, the maximum output is only 30W.

I decided to buy a Hypex NCore NC252MP-based amplifier. I chose IOM, because they have a smaller form factor which will fit better in the space I have available (and I'm not in the US), but VTV looks very good value. It's currently on its way, so I cannot yet report back on the improvement. People seem to have different opinions of the usefulness of balanced connections in a home environment, but Hypex are clear in their recommendation for a balanced connection.

So my two cents would be: the DA-8S is not going to be satisfactory long term, so it doesn't make sense to compromise your long-term choice of speaker to fit in with a temporary power amp limitation. So if I were you I would buy the VTV NC252MP amp and see how I liked the LS50 speakers with that.

Hmmm... interesting. I wonder how hard it'd be to find a suitable 26v power supply for fun? I feel like there might be a Topping amp that uses a 26v..

I really really like how small those IOM amps are.. thanks for the recommendations!

 

[VintageFlanker]

It does have a remote. You may have been looking at the "Pro" version which might not have a remote?

That is the ADI-2 DAC FS, not the ADI-2 FS.

That being said, considering the price difference, I would jump directly to the ADI-2 DAC.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

That is the ADI-2 DAC FS, not the ADI-2 FS.

That being said, considering the price difference, I would jump directly to the ADI-2 DAC.

Ah, I see.. yeah I meant the ADI-2 DAC FS. Man that's confusing

 

[CDMC]

Ahh.. I was wondering about Hypex vs Purifi. Yeah, you've given me some enticing choices. I've had my eye on the March Audio and Nord amps but I do like that this Nord has both XLR and RCA inputs https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/nord-one-mp-nc500-stereo-power-amp

I've also had my eye on this for if I decide I don't care about XLR but I don't know how it compares to Hypex units https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/edge-a2-300?technical

Ok good to know, that opens up more options for dacs as preamps. XLR is one of those things that's kind of gear fetish for me I guess.. I like that it's technically "better", I like the way looks, the way it feels clicking in.. and it's well within my budget so why not?

Don't base your decision on if the amp has RCA inputs. When they do, they are just converting XLR to RCA internally. There are XLR adapter cables that do that. The two that I am aware of that are properly wired per NCore requirements are:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable

https://www.marchaudio.net.au/product-page/male-xlr-to-rca-cable

The XTZsound amplifiers are Icepower based. Hypex Ncore and Purifi measure better, but in practice, there is likely no audible difference between the three.

If looking at the Icepower, you should also consider the Emotiva monoblock amps. They are $299 each, but they often have sales which will bring the price down a bit:

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/pa-1

And it is okay to want XLR over RCA, just because you want to. I run balanced in my main system, as all of my components have it, so why not.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Don't base your decision on if the amp has RCA inputs. When they do, they are just converting XLR to RCA internally. There are XLR adapter cables that do that. The two that I am aware of that are properly wired per NCore requirements are:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable

https://www.marchaudio.net.au/product-page/male-xlr-to-rca-cable

So when using these adapters are we sending ~2v out of rca to xlr inputs that are expecting ~4v?

 

[CDMC]

So when using these adapters are we sending ~2v out of rca to xlr inputs that are expecting ~4v?

No. The reference level for RCAs is 2v to ground. XLR has two signals, regular and an inverted. Each signal at reference level (for consumer) is 2v to ground, but 4v between the regular and inverted. When you use an RCA to XLR adaptor, you are simply not feeding the inverted signal, which loses the ability for the XLR to reject noise based on the differential, but the hot leg is still getting 2v as before.

Keep in mind that the voltages are the reference that the output from your source should be putting out when fed a -0dbfs (full scale) signal. If you only feed 1v, you are only decreasing the output to by 3db. So don't get too hung up on this, especially since you are using an active preamp that has gain and can increase the signal beyond the input. This really only becomes important if you are using a passive preamp, have signals recorded at low levels, and/or an amplifier that has low gain and needs more than 2v to reach full output.

 

[Dzhaughn]

I've recently been auditioning Elac DBR62 and Revel M16. Either will be capable of making beautiful sounds at uncomfortably loud levels in your rooom. Well, maybe you want it louder than I do. In which case consider turning the volume down, you're killing your ears.

They are replacing KEF Q100s, which are not so capable. I don't find the KEF Q100 doing well enough down to 80Hz, where one wants a subwoofer to top off. The LS50 is perhaps better bass-wise, but there's reason to doubt. With the Elac and Revel, I don't feel the need for subwoofers, but that's a matter of taste and convenience.

I use an old 50W rated Rotel (class AB) power amp. Last year, I tried a NAD 3020 (which is class D) and felt it could not push the KEFs to more than "probably loud enough," so maybe you want to reconsider your amp.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

The generally accepted standard for clipping is 1%, which is audible in the higher frequencies.

Also, they do not accurately reflect peaks. 80db average is pretty loud (by way of reference, my target level in my nearfield setup is 74db per speaker, 77db for the pair at -20dbfs, which means peaks could be as high as 94db per speaker, 97 db for the pair). At 80 db on your meter, you are likely hitting anywhere between 85-95 db peaks, depending on how dynamic the music is.

Ok, so I'm learning a little more everyday and the more I learn the more questions I have..

I've been looking at the specs for my amp modules when run at 24v. They can run up to 26v apparently, but my amp uses a 24v power supply. Below, it looks like I'm getting:

~30w into 8ohms @ 1% THD+N
~50-60w into 4ohms @ 1% THD+N?...

So if I use the Focal Aria 906 as an example.. we have ~87.46dB sensitivity with a minimum impedance of 4.5 ohms (per Amir's measurements), which at 20 watts is already giving me 100.5dB from 6.5 feet away. Should this not theoretically give me decent headroom?

One graph says PMP0 and the other PMP1 (which I've circled). What does that mean? (Google search was not too clarifying)

Also, can you tell when clipping begins by looking at the graphs? Like when distortion starts to spike up steeply is that considered clipping or is it more just related to a certain level of THD+N?

 

[CDMC]

Responding to the above:

1) Generally, clipping is considered to occur at 1% distortion and the most commonly used measurement for maximum output of an amplifier. Amir measures the maximum output of an amplifier at the knee where distortion stops decreasing and starts to climb rapidly. Amir's is a bit more subjective, but probably also more accurate as to when an amplifier starts to clip.

2) I have no clue what PMPO and PMP1 are.

3) Yes, the output should be sufficient using your amplifier with the Focal 906, assuming you are not using an eq or ton control to increase the bass from the speaker, which will require additional power. The amp will have insufficient power if you listen at very loud levels.

4) I highly, highly, highly recommend you don't purchase a pair of speakers based on the under $200 amplifier you have now. You are looking at $1,000+ speakers. Pick the speakers you like the sound of the best and if needed, upgrade the amplifier later.

 

[pierre]

I would keep the LS50 and add an amp and 1 subwoofer (or two). Amp and Sub are cheap and make a huge difference.
The KEF is not bad either and with some EQ you will have a top system: it is hard to have a better one in a small room with 2 speakers only.

Buy a crown/behringer/3a amplifier, a sub or two from Part Express for ex. https://www.parts-express.com/cat/powered-subwoofers/95
a mini DSP or a DCX2496 or similar. Total is cheaper (600$ max) and will be significantly better.