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Revel F208 Playback Levels

Sal1950

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I've got a BFF bro up in Chicago that recently bought a new set Revel Performa F208s. He's just not satisfied with the volume levels he can generate in his listening space. It is a fairly large space, an open floor plan (30x30 or so) that combines the living, dining rooms, kitchen, a tall cathedral ceiling, and open stairways to lower and upper levels. He has an older Adcom GFA 5500 good for 200/350 8/4 ohms and a good bit of current. It's 1% distortion/clipping lights are blinking before he's getting desired levels. He's considering adding a good Revel subwoofer to relieve the main amp of some demand but that's not going to do much for max levels either.
In reality what kind of power do you think these Revels can absorb before they let the smoke out? His budget would never allow for a five digit audiophile piece but I'm thinking about something from the Crown pro line. Maybe in the XTi 4002 or 6002 family.
Thoughts?
TIA
 

Blumlein 88

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Don't have any hands on experience Sal. They are rated at 88.5 db/watt at one meter. Stereophile measured just a little more than that. So they aren't terribly inefficient. Remember doubling power only provides a barely noticeable sound level increase.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa3-f208-loudspeaker-measurements

Revel gives the too general recommended amp size as 100 to 350 watts. My guess would be something like 105-110 db would be the max clean output just in general, and the Adcom should manage that or close enough buying a bigger amp likely is of no help. The only challenging part of the impedance curve lies below 50 hz being at its worst at 25 hz. So maybe a good sub would help quite a bit. It would allow the speaker to reach higher max levels without harm and reduce the power required for super low frequencies.

I do think that size room is rather large for a speaker that size. Could it be he has put the speakers and himself in some low frequency nulls so he isn't getting much output where he listens?

So maybe try dropping some tracks into audacity and filtering out steeply below 50 hz or 80 hz and see how much that helps. Or playing while monitoring sound levels on an app on a smartphone. Those are somewhat useful though they usually miss everything below about 200 hz. Just to see what sound levels he is reaching in the above 200 hz range.
 
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Sal1950

Sal1950

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Revel gives the too general recommended amp size as 100 to 350 watts.
Thanks D, I had looked for that spec but didn't see it. And in reality we both know it means nothing.
I had covered the rest with him a few times but the in the end your right, it's a large space, maybe too large. I tried initially to point him at some larger horns but mainly they didn't fit his interior decorating desires.
I knew I was kind of grasping at straws, he can do the sub thing and then power them up till Scotty calls up that "Captain, I can't give her no more, she's about to blow". A nice kilowatt per Crown should give him that option.
 
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Sal1950

Sal1950

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DonH56

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Why doesn't he just return the Revels and use his previous speakers? Or look for something that fits his space? Doubling the amplifier power is only about a 3 dB bump in the midrange, not all that much, assuming the speakers can handle it... It's also possible the Revels are flatter, or just different, than the frequency response of his previous speakers so they don't sound as loud to him. For that matter, I've had issues when folk said their new speakers (whatever) were not as loud when the difference was that the new ones were not distorting as much. All that HF hash made them sound louder; take it away, and they didn't sound as loud even though an SPL meter said they were. Clean sound can be louder without "sounding" louder. I'm not sure another (different) amp would help.
 

Thomas savage

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Why doesn't he just return the Revels and use his previous speakers? Or look for something that fits his space? Doubling the amplifier power is only about a 3 dB bump in the midrange, not all that much, assuming the speakers can handle it... It's also possible the Revels are flatter, or just different, than the frequency response of his previous speakers so they don't sound as loud to him. For that matter, I've had issues when folk said their new speakers (whatever) were not as loud when the difference was that the new ones were not distorting as much. All that HF hash made them sound louder; take it away, and they didn't sound as loud even though an SPL meter said they were. Clean sound can be louder without "sounding" louder. I'm not sure another (different) amp would help.
Good advice imo

You make a mistake, don’t want to turn on it and end up compounding it by trying to ‘make good’. Been there done that!

Bigger amps won’t solve his issue, properly loading his room will.. some sub woofers and or more meaty speakers and putting them in a place that’s optimal .

Amirs speakers effectively are in a huge space but they put a kick in your gut, can’t imagen he’s got 1000W amps..
 
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Sal1950

Sal1950

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Why doesn't he just return the Revels and use his previous speakers?
I doubt return is an option, he's had them for maybe 6 months now. On the rest, yea, your right, tried to pass that on to him before but............
I really don't know understand how he can be dissatisfied, this should be a awesome kit. I believe he read all the reviews like Stereophiles and the web stuff, listened to the salesguy and expected a speaker this expensive to walk on water and do everything so much better than his other stuff. He's owned a couple speakers from Klispch in the past and believe he's just missing that big, dynamic horn sound we've debated before. Initially I tried to point him at some big JBL's, or other horns but we kept running into the aesthetic thing.

Bigger amps won’t solve his issue, properly loading his room will.. some sub woofers and or more meaty speakers and putting them in a place that’s optimal .
I think in his mind he's locked into a path Thomas, you know how it goes. I'd sell the damn things and get a set of Klispch La Scala II's but again they won't fit his aesthetic. He doesn't do the audiophile-sitting in the sweetspot thing. Speakers are positioned where they look best and rock the house while he does his whatever.

It's possible a bigger amp and sub might just settle it, at least in true audiophile manner, if you believe it sounds better - it does.
This is a very interesting case of the real world audio market. A place where people who are not audiophiles, have a limited but decent sized budget, go in the internet searching for a really good rig. .
 

oivavoi

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I'd sell the damn things and get a set of Klispch La Scala II's but again they won't fit his aesthetic. He doesn't do the audiophile-sitting in the sweetspot thing. Speakers are positioned where they look best and rock the house while he does his whatever.

Seems to me like this guy should get a used pair of Beolab 5s, or 50s if he can afford them. They need to be positioned a little bit away from walls, but they do look stunning IMO. Need to be auditioned to see if he likes their sound.

Edit: I mixed up the Revels with the Salon 2s in my head. Given the price range of the Revels, the Beolab 50s are obviously out of the question. But Beolab 5s can be found relatively cheap these days, as some owners are upgrading to the 50s. Plus, no need for amps etc.
 
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