RCA or XLR Cable recommendation?

[HockeyDad45]

I am in the process of designing a new home and the current plan is for fairly long run (30ft+) from a Denon AVR (RCA pre-out) to Rythmik subwoofer. The Rythmik has both RCA and XLR inputs. Is there any electrical advantage to going with XLR for this installation?

Thanks for any comments!

 

[Lambda]

Is there any electrical advantage to going with XLR for this installation?

Yes.

Used XLR your get some oft the noise cancellation benefits from a balanced connection even if only the receiver is balanced.

 

[sarumbear]

Yes.

Used XLR your get some oft the noise cancellation benefits from a balanced connection even if only the receiver is balanced.

How is that going to work if the source is unbalanced?

 

[Lambda]

How is that going to work if the source is unbalanced?

I thought you would know... you shuld.

Balanced Line Technology

The Douglas Self Site. audio amplifiers, genealogy.

www.douglas-self.com

its a differential amplifier or a differential receiver.
So only the Difference gets trough. same signals cancels out

EMI Noise is ruffly the same on both inputs. so it cancels out.
Signal is only on one line the other line is gnd so signal gets trough.

if both lines are driven is not relevant for this

 

[sarumbear]

I thought you would know... you shuld.

Balanced Line Technology

The Douglas Self Site. audio amplifiers, genealogy.

www.douglas-self.com

its a differential amplifier or a differential receiver.
So only the Difference gets trough. same signals cancels out

EMI Noise is ruffly the same on both inputs. so it cancels out.
Signal is only on one line the other line is gnd so signal gets trough.

if both lines are driven is not relevant for this

Well, I know.

It is not a differential signal if the source is single ended like the case here (RCA output). The output defines the signal not input.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

30 feet is quite long for an unbalanced link. You may suffer hum & interference. It might be OK, so try experimenting. At that sort of length you may benefit from a cable with a good quality screen.
Such a length would be fine for a balanced connection, but this requires BOTH the send and receive ends to be balanced.

 

[Speedskater]

Well, I know.

It is not a differential signal if the source is single ended like the case here (RCA output). The output defines the signal not input.

Yet a differential input on a single ended interconnect will reject much of the hum & noise picked up by the cable.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Is there any advantage going XLR? Yes maybe. Is there any advantage going RCA? No, there are no advantages to that. So go XLR. With adapters you could always go RCA at both ends if you wanted. You cannot go balanced with RCA wiring. So XLR might be an advantage and has an option RCA doesn't. Go XLR.

 

[sarumbear]

Yet a differential input on a single ended interconnect will reject much of the hum & noise picked up by the cable.

You are wrong. There is nothing differential on a single ended output. One of the balanced inputs is grounded or open! There’s only one live and one ground.

This is so basic that I don’t see the point in arguing.

 

[Deleted]

I remember Amirm commenting on the differential vs balanced in a video, and how balanced just kinda stuck for both ports.

The basic way I could describe it is:
Differential = L+, L-, R+, R-, G pins/rings in one port/connector
Balanced = P, N, G for each L & R channel
RCA = P, N for each L & R channel

Might not be exactly perfectly correct, but it's close enough and easy to remember

You cannot go balanced with RCA wiring.

Gonna be that guy, have you seen Schiit's Nexus™ offerings?
(I'm joking, I knew what you meant. A SE signal can't be made into a true BAL signal)

Edit: there could be a benefit to going XLR over a long run for the differential/cancelling attributes of an XLR connection, if the device supported outputting a SE RCA input to XLR outputs.

 

[dorakeg]

Is there any advantage going XLR? Yes maybe. Is there any advantage going RCA? No, there are no advantages to that. So go XLR. With adapters you could always go RCA at both ends if you wanted. You cannot go balanced with RCA wiring. So XLR might be an advantage and has an option RCA doesn't. Go XLR.

XLR works only if the source has XLR outputs. For TS's case, his Denon AVR only has single end outputs. So, he cannot use XLR.

Single end to XLR adapters do not work. All they do is to connect pin 3 (cold/negative) to ground. So, essentially you are just having 1 signal and 2 ground wires in an XLR cable. There is no noise rejection capability.

 

[Blumlein 88]

XLR works only if the source has XLR outputs. For TS's case, his Denon AVR only has single end outputs. So, he cannot use XLR.

Single end to XLR adapters do not work. All they do is to connect pin 3 (cold/negative) to ground. So, essentially you are just having 1 signal and 2 ground wires in an XLR cable. There is no noise rejection capability.

Correct but you are no worse off than using rca at that point. If in the future you get balanced gear, then you have the wrong thing in the wall. Rca adapters most definitely work for single ended connection over balanced cabling. One option gives you the choice of SE or balanced and one only gives the SE option. I've not claimed adapters create a balanced signal.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd think a good rca cable would be sufficient. Don't see any advantage using rca to xlr unless that's your only choice....

 

[Deleted]

XLR works only if the source has XLR outputs. For TS's case, his Denon AVR only has single end outputs. So, he cannot use XLR.

Single end to XLR adapters do not work. All they do is to connect pin 3 (cold/negative) to ground. So, essentially you are just having 1 signal and 2 ground wires in an XLR cable. There is no noise rejection capability.

This is a good point making the XLR debate kinda moot, unless there is going to be additional equipment added.

Guessing this is the AVR-S540BT? it has the sub marked as a pre out so I'm kinda guessing. The product line seems to only use RCA.

 

[Chrispy]

This is a good point making the XLR debate kinda moot, unless there is going to be additional equipment added.

Guessing this is the AVR-S540BT? it has the sub marked as a pre out so I'm kinda guessing. The product line seems to only use RCA.

All denon avrs use rca/single ended pre-outs for all channels....

ps which works quite well

 

[theREALdotnet]

You are wrong. There is nothing differential on a single ended output. One of the balanced inputs is grounded or open! There’s only one live and one ground.

Yes, but the balanced input does not reference ground. To it, the only thing that matters is the difference in potential between the two leads.

Unlike with RCA, in an XLR interconnect the ground/shield conductor that equalises the ground potential between the two devices, and therefore carries a current, is not used to carry the signal.

 

[cabacon]

You can take the RCA output and turn it into a balanced signal to carry over XLR, though, right? My understanding is that's what 2-channel Direct Boxes are for. I don't know that it's worth it in this application, but it would do something, compared to just using an RCA->XLR adapter cable.

 

[sam_adams]

Use a double shield, RG-59 CL2/CMP rated coaxial cable and use a Jensen SUB-1RR input transformer at the sub end of the cable.

 

[nagster]

Is there any electrical advantage to going with XLR for this installation?

According to the people linked to, there are benefits.
If you want to run the cable behind the wall or under the floor, it is recommended to lay a shielded twisted-pair cable anyway. If possible, use a STAR QUAD cable.
With coaxial cable, there are limited solutions if something goes wrong.
It is troublesome to change the hidden wiring later. By the way, there is no drawback even if both ends of the shielded twisted-pair cable are connected by RCA.

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/an003.pdf

Grounding and Shielding Audio Devices

Since the Audio Engineering Society has adopted the "pin 2 is hot" standard, what is the correct use for pin 1?

www.ranecommercial.com

https://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Noise_Susceptibility_in_Analog_and_Digital_Signal_Processing_Systems.pdf

https://www.canare.com/_files/ugd/00a28a_7a870c0a028e442293918092ec0dcc65.pdf

 

[Blumlein 88]

Here is Canare Star Quad used in some balanced XLR interconnects. If you use an adapter, the ample woven shield and two of the wires will be grounded, and two will carry signal. It will be as resistant to hum as RG-59. Which double-shielded RG59 or RG6 is fine if you are sure you'll never have a balanced source. If you encounter hum the Jensen device should work. If however you were to upgrade at some point to balanced, the XLR would be more resistant to noise.

So according to my opinion, the XLR makes sense if you are embedding it in wall. It will give no advantage currently if your AVR uses single ended RCA outputs. It might be better in the future. OTOH, if you plan on putting the wire in conduit even plastic conduit, you can use the RCA now, and if you upgrade in the future an electrician can pull a new XLR cable in to replace the RCA.

These kind of threads are probably not useful if you just want a straightforward answer. I fear we sometimes over-complicate the options. And yes I'll say I'm one doing that in this thread. My apologies.