Question about amplifiers

[gallionetech]

Hey all,

I have a question about a topic I haven't been able to wrap my head around.

A lot of reviews + articles mention amps that produce a "different sound" or a "warm" sound, etc. Example: the Chord Hugu TT2.

I don't understand how this is a good thing. Wouldn't you want your AMP/DAC to be neutral sounding and then have your headphones be "warm", etc. If you prefer a different sound profile? Just trying to figure out if there is a point to amps sounding different than "neutral" like a Topping A90D.

Thanks!

 

[FlyingFreak]

You're right.
Don't bother trying to wrap your head around it, it's a waste of time (and plenty of thread discussing this here if you want to go deeper into it).

 

[egellings]

Agree; amplifiers should not alter the sound in any way. All competent amplifiers, played at the same volume level in the same equipment/room setting, should sound identical.

 

[fpitas]

Yes, you want all your electronics to be neutral. The right way to get warmth or whatever is to tweak EQ.

 

[DSJR]

Not all amps are designed equally though as regards output impedance and how much or little they equalise a given loudspeaker based on its impedance curve which can be like a roller-coaster in some cases. Mind you, with well designed modern amps, any deviation is a quarter of a dB at worst. Power output can sometimes catch out the unwary, especially on piano and choral works, but as clean power is very cheap these days away from the audiophool end of the market, that's not so much an issue either

 

[DVDdoug]

There's not even an agreement on what "warm" means...

With modern electronics, the ONLY defect/limitation is usually noise (background hum, hiss, or whine). There is always SOME noise and sometimes it's audible. Frequency response and distortion are almost always better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier into distortion.

Some vacuum tube amps have intentional (or unintentional) distortion*, or they can sound "pure" like any good solid state amp.

Speakers and headphones are not as "perfect" and they WILL all sound different.

See Audiophoolery.




* Guitar amps (often tube amps) aren't supposed to be high-fidelity. They all sound different and most guitar players have their favorite amp as well as their favorite guitar. And they are designed to distort in a "pleasing way" when overdriven. But, you don't want the whole band and the vocals to sound distorted!

 

[jae]

Hey all,

I have a question about a topic I haven't been able to wrap my head around.

A lot of reviews + articles mention amps that produce a "different sound" or a "warm" sound, etc. Example: the Chord Hugu TT2.

I don't understand how this is a good thing. Wouldn't you want your AMP/DAC to be neutral sounding and then have your headphones be "warm", etc. If you prefer a different sound profile? Just trying to figure out if there is a point to amps sounding different than "neutral" like a Topping A90D.

Thanks!

Yes I would say you're correct. The only sensible way to go about it is having transparent, ideally load-agnostic components that fits one's desired features/purchase criteria, then similarly choosing the appropriate loudspeaker or headphone that is also performant and appropriate for their use case, environment, or preference. Tweaking and fine-tuning is best done with parametric EQ and less commonly other DSP/effects if desired.

Music with flaws in its reproduction or even music poorly reproduced can still be extremely enjoyable, which is why people to this day still buy nonoptimal or even objectively poor components. Since the "audiophile hobby" is often seen as hand-in-hand with "music aficionado" or general "music enjoyment", the focus for many decades especially when it comes to home (as opposed to professional) audio has been more about making customers believe they are being offered unique subjective musical "experiences" from products rather than actually focusing on products that reproduce music in a scientifically conscious or accurate manner. The latter not only requires some specialised knowledge (which you learn about in this forum, books, academic papers, etc.) but also requires measurement to understand and verify performance- this takes out a lot of the "magic and mystery" people tend to associate with music enjoyment since music is a very personal sensory experience for humans. It is probably easier to convince the average music lover that a headphone sounds warmer because a master craftsman from a luxury brand chose a special type of wood in its design, than to explain to them it is warmer because air molecules vibrating at certain frequencies are a decibel or two louder or quieter when the same electrical signal is passed to this headphone as opposed to another. The former is more akin to an unverifiable artistic expression or spiritual experience, and the latter is a science lesson using numbers.

Without this "human factor", there would probably be lower motivation for the average customer to spend repeated money in the industry because once they know they have achieved some level of accuracy within their budget and limitations, there is much less of a desire to "go further". It would undoubtedly punish manufacturers who were not able to competitively produce superior well-engineered products... which is basically a majority of the industry. So the industry is set up in a way that appeals to music lovers that are willing to spend more and more money if they believe each component in an audio chain is like a totally unique and vital component in a performance automobile that will affect how it handles and races. If one believes that sound quality is largely determined by each component, and that each component has important pros and cons that have to be carefully mixed and matched to achieve uniquely superior experiences, then the potential for different experiences is boundless and so is the amount of money one can spend to engage in this hobby is similarly boundless. If one believes all the qualities of a component cannot actually be measured, then there is no way to reason someone out of that. The reality is that past a certain performance and quality threshold, non-transducer components perform audibly identical at best or inaudibly different at worst.