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PS Audio speaks

ahofer

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#41
It is a good point, I admit. I am still wondering if unsighted sonic quality is stable, since taste and hearing change with time. My second "serious" amplifier, bought 25 years ago, today sounds unbearably mellow to me.
Well, I’m in the “well-designed amps sound the same” camp, so naturally, I’m thinking your amp may need some rejuvenation at the repair shop. Or perhaps it is a tube design or badly impedance-matched and interacts with your speakers to EQ the sound (assuming you are comparing in the same system). Or you’ve become accustomed to other components that are brighter in FR.
 
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#42
Well, I’m in the “well-designed amps sound the same” camp, so naturally, I’m thinking your amp may need some rejuvenation at the repair shop. Or perhaps it is a tube design or badly impedance-matched and interacts with your speakers to EQ the sound (assuming you are comparing in the same system). Or you’ve become accustomed to other components that are brighter in FR.
It is not a tube and the first one is probably true. However it was always on the sweet sounding side, I just changed my taste.
 

richard12511

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#44
At the end of the day, he is not saying that there is magic involved, he is saying that he can't understand why they sound different from the measurements he has.
I don't see how those are different things. Saying that there is some unmeasurable force that I don't understand but somehow changes the sound is akin to saying "magic".

At end of the day, we know that the most likely(by far) explanation is simply that the difference in sound is being created by his brain. It doesn't exist outside of his head. We all somehow think we're immune, though. A blind test would prove his point, but somehow there's always some excuse why a blind test doesn't work for this type of magic.
 

richard12511

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#45
Well I agree with Paul about one thing: that subjectivists and objectivists tend to be dismissive of each other. This I can attest given I visit both sites that objectivist, (such as ASR), and those that are subjectivist..

Personally I believe there is a correlation between measurements and subjective listening results. First, many subjectivists who simply reject that idea that measurements have any relevance at all. But at the same time if I admit I can (often) hear differences, I incur the mockery of many objectivists who believe I that I'm kidding myself.

(Its ironic that some objectivists who so admire extraordinarily fine measurements and the same time deny that one can hear the difference between decent measurements and great ones.)

My frustration and regret is that so few pursue a middle road that says that measurements matter but that are not generally interpreted properly. Dr. Geddes was pointing in that direction in his researches that suggest the high order harmonic distortions sound bad. For my part I personally believe that the essence is that 2nd and 3rd order harmonics sound good. It almost seems that both subjectivists and objectivists alike are hesitant say the distortion can ever sound good.
I definitely believe you hear differences. I just don't believe those differences have anything to do with the soundwaves entering your ear. Our brain contributes just as much(or more) to the sound we hear as our ears. My mind would be easily changed with a blind test, though.
 

richard12511

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#46
Just for the sake of debate, why is it so relevant since no customer listens to the products unsighted?
Because we want to know whether the difference in sound comes from a difference in soundwaves or is simply a construct of his brain. The latter is far, far, more likely, but the former is the only one that's transferrable to people other than him. A blind test is the only way to tell them apart.
 

restorer-john

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#50
Personally I think some of the more noisy, anti PS Audio ASR members should climb out from behind their keyboard anonymity, call up Paul at PS Audio and ask whether they can visit. See the two phono preamplifiers, check out his testing and then have a listen on his reference system. If it all checks out and Paul is right, buy him and that hipster designer mate of his a vegetarian lunch and admit you were wrong.
 

richard12511

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#51

ahofer

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#52
Personally I think some of the more noisy, anti PS Audio ASR members should climb out from behind their keyboard anonymity, call up Paul at PS Audio and ask whether they can visit. See the two phono preamplifiers, check out his testing and then have a listen on his reference system. If it all checks out and Paul is right, buy him and that hipster designer mate of his a vegetarian lunch and admit you were wrong.
I think he should take the challenge and claim $10k for charity.
 

restorer-john

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#53
I think he should take the challenge and claim $10k for charity.
Seriously, if PS Audio was in Australia, I'd call him up myself. He's clearly a likeable bloke and is an industry veteran. Surely there's an ASR member who lives somewhere near PS Audio who has the balls to give it a go?
 

ahofer

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#54
Seriously, if PS Audio was in Australia, I'd call him up myself. He's clearly a likeable bloke and is an industry veteran. Surely there's an ASR member who lives somewhere near PS Audio who has the balls to give it a go?
I’m East Coast myself. I did suggest it in one of their forums, but to no avail.

I did enjoy his book, but I think his business strength is more raconteur/bulls***ter than innovator.
 

Hotwetrat

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#55
This.

High end audio is a lie - always has been and I always suspected as much.

The simple fact is they just manufacter utter crap and cut all the corners then throw on HUGE HUGE mark ups to the 'proper' stuff.

Won't get into the snake oil...
 

Hotwetrat

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#56
Seriously, if PS Audio was in Australia, I'd call him up myself. He's clearly a likeable bloke and is an industry veteran. Surely there's an ASR member who lives somewhere near PS Audio who has the balls to give it a go?
His business and reputation is on the line, he ain't gonna play. He knows damn well what's up he's not where he is for NO reason.

In other words, he doesn't really believe his own BS IMO.

Time to expose this awful unscrupulous industry AND it's £2000 audioquest cables.

My mate was once sold a ONE METRE HDMI cable for £80. Back in the day.

Enough. I appreciate this forum.

'Here we go again, the endless measurements vs. listening debate. ' Even his opening line in the video description is dismissive, his video is keeping his business alive, by saying, 'even if it measures well, it still may not sound good!' I'd never even HEARD of this debate since being into audio for over 30 years, and these snake oil con artists know 99% of consumers haven't either, and he's addressing it now out of necessity due to the debate gaining traction and exposure.

He's gotta keep that 'DOUBT' alive!! So people will by his £4000 power conditioner!

He's full of ass IMO. And his speciality is sales, marketing and psychology. And his business is money, lots of it.

Bit of a rant because I am utterly sick of so many getting FILTHY rich with unadulterated skulduggery.
 
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#57
I don't see how those are different things. Saying that there is some unmeasurable force that I don't understand but somehow changes the sound is akin to saying "magic".
.
That is not what he is saying, he is just saying that he can't understand.
As a software expert, I sometimes do not understand why software behaves in a certain way, and the solution is sometimes just a guess. This doesn't mean that there is magic involved, it just means that it is very difficult to understand and the cause is not one of the common causes. With an appropriate forensic you could identify the problem, but sometimes it is just not worth it.

At some point about the measurement he says something like "I guess we could understand how it sounds just from measurements if we had all of them". I don't remember the exact words.
 

Hotwetrat

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#58
That is not what he is saying, he is just saying that he can't understand.
As a software expert, I sometimes do not understand why software behaves in a certain way, and the solution is sometimes just a guess. This doesn't mean that there is magic involved, it just means that it is very difficult to understand and the cause is not one of the common causes. With an appropriate forensic you could identify the problem, but sometimes it is just not worth it.

At some point about the measurement he says something like "I guess we could understand how it sounds just from measurements if we had all of them". I don't remember the exact words.
Hi Paul!
 

Kegemusha

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#60
I wonder , what ears do the use at the end to qualify products?

I know some brands uses some Audio expert (trained ears) to do the las tweeking, I think Yamaha have some expert and some other brands, but I guess before that the equipments has to measure good, no PS noise and etc.
 

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