" An American T-dropping conspiracy?! "

[stalepie2]

Neither of these women sound Southern at all to me, that is 100% evening-news-announcer Mid Atlantic, desirable on broadcast TV because everyone so clearly understands it. IMO she's emphasizing 'sister' for dramatic effect, not part of an accent. Maybe there's a tinge in 'example' and 'five'.

The accent I at least associate with 'Georgia' practically doesn't pronounce the 'r' in 'Georgia' at all, with Ray Charles's traditional being an exceedingly mild example. I googled this link and this lady sounds a lot like the accents I grew up around in South Carolina, except she's obviously from a bigger city.

When people generally consumed local media (or before that, no audio media at all) you had very strong local accents. Now we spend most of the day consuming often international media and that smears the language quirks all around.

Thanks, interesting. Yeah, in that link I definitely recognize that accent. A lot of siblance in that recording ("sss, sssss"), or maybe that's my headphones.

The accents are all being smeared away into some kinda global hive mind, I guess.


Wait, "fire" isn't two syllables? Fye-yer. Fiii yerr.. Fire. Fy yar. Yer. It's yer. Fi, yer. There. That is correct.

 

[mhardy6647]

Lawks a lordy Meeery Paupins!

"Mary's" look kind of says it all, no?

There was nice turn on the 'fake British accent' trope in Mrs. Doubtfire, if memory serves.

 

[Count Arthur]

"Mary's" look kind of says it all, no?
View attachment 343165

There was nice turn on the 'fake British accent' trope in Mrs. Doubtfire, if memory serves.

That's rich coming from Pierce Brosnan, who's Irish!

To be sure, to be sure, top o' the mornin' to ya! And all that.

 

[mhardy6647]

That's rich coming from Pierce Brosnan, who's Irish!

To be sure, to be sure, top o' the mornin' to ya! And all that.

Faith and begorrah!

 

[MattHooper]

I’d like to see that fellow do a video on another phenomenon that is annoying the hell out of me which I’ve learned is called S-backing.

This is where people, and it started off as mostly Americans, ad “sh” or “sch” to words starting with st, so it adds a slurring sound at the beginning.

So street is pronounced “schtreet” and “strong” is pronounced “schtrong” etc.

I first noticed this many years ago when it seemed one of the defining features of a black persons voice or speaking, say in a call in show. But in the last 20 years or so, and particularly the last 10 years, it seems to have caught on like wildfire and now I hear it constantly among all Americans. I even hear news anchors S-backing. And now I’ve noticed it’s started to make its way in to Canada.
I’m certainly not “offended” by it, but it’s one of those quirks, like vocal fry, that once you notice it you hear it everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I’d like to see that fellow do a video on another phenomenon that is annoying the hell out of me which I’ve learned is called S-backing.

This is where people, and it started off as mostly Americans, ad “sh” or “sch” to words starting with st, so it adds a slurring sound at the beginning.

So street is pronounced “schtreet” and “strong” is pronounced “schtrong” etc.

I first noticed this many years ago when it seemed one of the defining features of a black persons voice or speaking, say in a call in show. But in the last 20 years or so, and particularly the last 10 years, it seems to have caught on like wildfire and now I hear it constantly among all Americans. I even hear news anchors S-backing. And now I’ve noticed it’s started to make its way in to Canada.
I’m certainly not “offended” by it, but it’s one of those quirks, like vocal fry, that once you notice it you hear it everywhere.

For your particular question, this thread might offer some insight:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asklinguistics/comments/zmm627

BTW - one comment in this thread was that "language shift happens somewhat arbitrarily." I was taught years ago that is not true, but I can't find any physical reasons for a logical shift right now. I'll keep looking.


Jim

 

[Count Arthur]

My pet peeve is, like, how, like, has become, like, the most, like, used word in the, like, language.

I've also noticed that people have started to use the word "value" in an odd way.

Instead of "This car is good value", they will say "This car is a good value".

or

Instead of "Now, that's good value", they will say, "Now, that's a good value".

What's that about?

 

[stalepie2]

Interesting. I always say "a good value." But it doesn't make sense. Thanks for the correction.

Maybe it's keeping in mind the thought of who it's a good value for, based on how much money you have to spend. So it ends up becoming a relative thought. "That's a good value, if..."

 

[mhardy6647]

My pet peeve is, like, how, like, has become, like, the most, like, used word in the, like, language.

I've also noticed that people have started to use the word "value" in an odd way.

Instead of "This car is good value", they will say "This car is a good value".

or

Instead of "Now, that's good value", they will say, "Now, that's a good value".

What's that about?

I mean... personally...
I'm a fan of stating any opinion -- but especially a contrary one -- by starting with the words I mean.



This being said (ahem), language is dynamic. I have to remind myself of that often.

 

[stalepie2]

For your particular question, this thread might offer some insight:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asklinguistics/comments/zmm627

BTW - one comment in this thread was that "language shift happens somewhat arbitrarily." I was taught years ago that is not true, but I can't find any physical reasons for a logical shift right now. I'll keep looking.


Jim

Looking at her mouth as she speaks, in the video posted on the reddit link, if this is what she's doing it with her s's (I don't really hear it), it would seem she doesn't open her mouth very wide and she has big upper teeth. (Usually what's considered beautiful for a smile). But it might affect pronunciation. In the other pictures of her family in that video they also have prominent upper row of teeth and don't seem to open wide when speaking loudly.
A bit of an underbite perhaps?
Then a third through the video it shows the granddaughter, Tatiana Kennedy Schlossberg...

 

[Count Arthur]

Interesting. I always say "a good value." But it doesn't make sense. Thanks for the correction.

Maybe it's keeping in mind the thought of who it's a good value for, based on how much money you have to spend. So it ends up becoming a relative thought. "That's a good value, if..."

I still think the "a" is superfluous.

It can work, when "value" is used in the sense of "trait" or "characteristic", for example: "Honesty, is a good value to have", otherwise it seems odd to me. Maybe it's an Americanism, like "gotten" instead of "got".

 

[stalepie2]

I still think the "a" is superfluous.

It can work, when "value" is used in the sense of "trait" or "characteristic", for example: "Honesty, is a good value to have", otherwise it seems odd to me. Maybe it's an Americanism, like "gotten" instead of "got".

Probably it is.

I found it odd to learn in some video I watched that "axe" for "ask" actually is rather old, found in the Tyndale Bible.

Matthew 7:7-17 - TYN - Axe and it shalbe geven you. Seke and ye shall fyn...

Matthew 7:7-17 Axe and it shalbe geven you. Seke and ye shall fynd. knocke and it shalbe opened vnto you. For whosoever axeth receaveth and he yt seketh fyndeth and to hym that knocketh it shalbe opened. Ys there eny man amoge you which if his sonne axed hym bread ... Read verse in Tyndale

www.biblestudytools.com

Because I had indeed associated it only with Black American English, a corruption or something that was peculiar to that.

And to add something that puts thing back more onto a "psychoacoustic" topic, since for some reason I started this thread in that section, here is a video that is a reminder of the power of suggestion in what you think you're hearing:

 

[Count Arthur]

I’d like to see that fellow do a video on another phenomenon that is annoying the hell out of me which I’ve learned is called S-backing.

This is where people, and it started off as mostly Americans, ad “sh” or “sch” to words starting with st, so it adds a slurring sound at the beginning.

So street is pronounced “schtreet” and “strong” is pronounced “schtrong” etc.

I first noticed this many years ago when it seemed one of the defining features of a black persons voice or speaking, say in a call in show. But in the last 20 years or so, and particularly the last 10 years, it seems to have caught on like wildfire and now I hear it constantly among all Americans. I even hear news anchors S-backing. And now I’ve noticed it’s started to make its way in to Canada.
I’m certainly not “offended” by it, but it’s one of those quirks, like vocal fry, that once you notice it you hear it everywhere.

You mean like this guy:

Regardless, I find his videos very funny.

 

[Count Arthur]

Also, just for fun:

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Looking at her mouth as she speaks, in the video posted on the reddit link, if this is what she's doing it with her s's (I don't really hear it), it would seem she doesn't open her mouth very wide and she has big upper teeth. (Usually what's considered beautiful for a smile). But it might affect pronunciation. In the other pictures of her family in that video they also have prominent upper row of teeth and don't seem to open wide when speaking loudly.
A bit of an underbite perhaps?
Then a third through the video it shows the granddaughter, Tatiana Kennedy Schlossberg...

I was thinking of something along the lines of Grimm's Law or Verner's Law ... something like a universal phonology rule.

Jim

 

[BlackTalon]

My pet peeve is, like, how, like, has become, like, the most, like, used word in the, like, language.

That started in the late '70s/ early '80s -- and immortalizing it in the song Valley Girls made it a lot worse. It really helped it spread all over the US.

 

[stalepie2]

I was thinking of something along the lines of Grimm's Law or Verner's Law ... something like a universal phonology rule.

Jim

Oh. Well it's way over my head. I can't begin to understand at this level.

 

[krabapple]

That started in the late '70s/ early '80s -- and immortalizing it in the song Valley Girls made it a lot worse. It really helped it spread all over the US.

It started well before that, like, in the bebop and beatnik era, you dig?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Oh. Well it's way over my head. I can't begin to understand at this level.

The text for which I'm searching simplifies it a great deal, making it much easier to understand. Unfortunately, that text is over 55 years old, and I can't even remember the correct title.

Getting old is a bitch.

Jim

 

[mhardy6647]

This thread is driftin' inexorably towards yelling at clouds...