" An American T-dropping conspiracy?! "

[stalepie2]

This started to become interesting to me in terms of audio because I thought I was hearing the t-sounds in many of his examples as he makes his points. Sometimes they're a bit soft, which may be all he's saying, but then I began to wonder if it's because he's old and his hearing isn't as good as he assumes, or it helps to have decent headphones (though I wasn't using amazing ones to listen). Particularly around the 3 minute mark with Adele and some of the others, I hear some of their t's. I close my eyes, rewind, and still hear. Am I just expecting there to be a t-sound and imagining it?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Am I just expecting there to be a t-sound and imagining it?

I believe so. I was made aware of the mechanics of speech many years ago, and the examples in this video ore remarkably clear to me. (Then again, I had to pass quizzes on them years ago, too. )

This site may give you more information on the changes in pronunciation, both of consonants and of vowels. I consider it interesting ... some people may not.

Linguistics 001 -- Language Change and Historical Reconstruction

 

[mhardy6647]

The glottal stop just kills me.
Unfortunately, I know in my case it's class-ism I grew up, in retrospect, just a step removed from being trailer trash -- but that was an important step to us. I went to better schools and turned out OK (as do some of the trailer trash caste, of course!), but I knew plenty of folks who talked that way.
I'm absolutely not proud of it, but I cannot shake that association.

 

[mhardy6647]

Some current vocalisms are just affectations, though.
E.g., in the US, skipping the "l" sound in vulnerable -- transforming it into some sort of snooty Continental vocalization.

 

[Canuck57]

Americans pronounce Toronto, Tor-on-toe, whereas we sat Tor-ono. The American way is correct but it sounds weird to us.

 

[Count Arthur]

Well, that sent me down a rabbit hole I didn't know about.

 

[stalepie2]

Some current vocalisms are just affectations, though.
E.g., in the US, skipping the "l" sound in vulnerable -- transforming it into some sort of snooty Continental vocalization.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rant folks

 

[stalepie2]

Well, that sent me down a rabbit hole I didn't know about.

I originally made the joke (regarding the video I posted) that we dropped the TEA in the Boston harbor and since then have been drinking coffee and eyeing any tea-drinkers with suspicion, as is said happened at the time, in regards to loyalists to the Crown and the rebellion... but then backspaced thinking I was being stupid...

The Rocket Raccoon part I would think is supposed to be a joke about the word "cunt" since "can't" pronounced by the British guy sounds like "cunt."

 

[retroflex]

What we think we say and hear is generally only vaguely related to the actual sound waves. Luckily, we can measure and analyze them! Here I've loaded some parts of the video into a program called Praat, but you could probably do it with REW as well. First up is the speaker's "between" at 1:10. The highlighted part looks like a typical 't'. There's a quiet part at the beginning where the vibrations of the vocal chords stop and the tongue is moved to the top of the mouth, the tongue is then released, creating a sudden burst of noise:

Next is the "but like" at 4:00. It sounds like there's a 't' in there to me, but when we look at the data, we only see the pause caused by the glottal stop:

 

[Count Arthur]

The Rocket Raccoon part I would think is supposed to be a joke about the word "cunt" since "can't" pronounced by the British guy sounds like "cunt."

As a Brit, I suspect not. Within the UK, there are regional variations with regard to how "A" is pronounced in certain words like: bath and grass.

How to pronounce grass in English - Definition and synonyms of grass in English

How to pronounce grass in English. The definition of grass is: narrow-leaved green herbage: grown as lawns; used as pasture for grazing animals; cut and dried...

forvo.com

 

[Multicore]

Wednesday. Croissant. Hilarious.

 

[stalepie2]

What we think we say and hear is generally only vaguely related to the actual sound waves. Luckily, we can measure and analyze them! Here I've loaded some parts of the video into a program called Praat, but you could probably do it with REW as well. First up is the speaker's "between" at 1:10. The highlighted part looks like a typical 't'. There's a quiet part at the beginning where the vibrations of the vocal chords stop and the tongue is moved to the top of the mouth, the tongue is then released, creating a sudden burst of noise:

View attachment 343133


Next is the "but like" at 4:00. It sounds like there's a 't' in there to me, but when we look at the data, we only see the pause caused by the glottal stop:
View attachment 343134

So I am mistaking a glottal stop for a t?

 

[stalepie2]

I don't know... I'm hearing the t when she says it the wrong way. I still hear the t. Then when I went to a video about gottal stops I heard almost nothing.

 

[Prana Ferox]

A lot of his descriptions of the changing sounds "on this side of the Atlantic" just sound like different variations of mainly East Coast accents. Traditional American media stressed the Mid-Atlantic accent (even if the movies were made on the West Coast) and especially Southern accents were considered not only unacceptable low-class but carrying a taint. Several of the examples he uses just sound like different Southern / Low Coastal accents leaking into Mid-American - pronouncing 'garden' as two distinct syllables is 100% southern Belle. Several of the other examples sound like German / Dutch influences which in the US heavily weigh on local accents. At least he didn't try to include Boston gibberish.

 

[stalepie2]

A lot of his descriptions of the changing sounds "on this side of the Atlantic" just sound like different variations of mainly East Coast accents. Traditional American media stressed the Mid-Atlantic accent (even if the movies were made on the West Coast) and especially Southern accents were considered not only unacceptable low-class but carrying a taint. Several of the examples he uses just sound like different Southern / Low Coastal accents leaking into Mid-American - pronouncing 'garden' as two distinct syllables is 100% southern Belle. Several of the other examples sound like German / Dutch influences which in the US heavily weigh on local accents. At least he didn't try to include Boston gibberish.

Southern belle... interesting. How does Dixie Carter (the actress from Designing Women) sound? I am distantly related to her and live in Georgia. She seemed to always pronounce things clearly:

she says "sister" with a strong t
Strangely rolls her r at 1:14 with "threw". I find it nearly impossible to roll my r's.

 

[retroflex]

So I am mistaking a glottal stop for a t?

If you hear a 't' at that point in the video, then yeah, but I just grabbed one of the examples at random. If you have another timestamp where you hear a more clear I could take a look at that as well.

 

[stalepie2]

If you hear a 't' at that point in the video, then yeah, but I just grabbed one of the examples at random. If you have another timestamp where you hear a more clear I could take a look at that as well.

I notice at the part (4:00), that while I hear a t for his "but," the uploader did not mark that as a soft or silent t in the subtitles, as he did other words at that part. I think the recording of the voice and how it's been processed may be a factor in some examples. The microphones or what audio program and effects it may have been run through before uploading.

I guess I'm just filling in the gaps. Expecting to hear a t, because I know what's being said and how it's spelled.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Southern belle... interesting. How does Dixie Carter (the actress from Designing Women) sound? I am distantly related to her and live in Georgia. She seemed to always pronounce things clearly:

she says "sister" with a strong t
Strangely rolls her r at 1:14 with "threw". I find it nearly impossible to roll my r's.

Neither of these women sound Southern at all to me, that is 100% evening-news-announcer Mid Atlantic, desirable on broadcast TV because everyone so clearly understands it. IMO she's emphasizing 'sister' for dramatic effect, not part of an accent. Maybe there's a tinge in 'example' and 'five'.

The accent I at least associate with 'Georgia' practically doesn't pronounce the 'r' in 'Georgia' at all, with Ray Charles's traditional being an exceedingly mild example. I googled this link and this lady sounds a lot like the accents I grew up around in South Carolina, except she's obviously from a bigger city.

When people generally consumed local media (or before that, no audio media at all) you had very strong local accents. Now we spend most of the day consuming often international media and that smears the language quirks all around.

 

[mhardy6647]

At least he didn't try to include Boston gibberish.

I begya pahd'n?

 

[Count Arthur]

Lawks a lordy Meeery Paupins!