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Portable Recorders as DAPs

AudioStudies

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Curious if anyone is going the route of using portable recorders as DAPs, or for those not doing it, why not? I started a thread on the Tascam DR-05X but got no responses. I have one of those, and I also have an Olympus LS-P4 on order. Going this route, no streaming, but can play wav files from microSD. And they have the added advantage of better recording capability than a phone.
 

Frank Dernie

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I have a Korg mobile recorder but hardly ever use it.
I only listen to headphones if I go into Oxford on the bus but I haven't done that since lockdown and anyway the phone was fine for that and I am carrying it anyway.
 
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AudioStudies

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I have a Korg mobile recorder but hardly ever use it.
I don't know much about Korg. What vintage is your unit? Are their modern ones equipped with great DACs? I sure would love to visit UK sometime.
 

Frank Dernie

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I don't know much about Korg. What vintage is your unit? Are their modern ones equipped with great DACs? I sure would love to visit UK sometime.
It is 8-10 years old but records native DSD if wanted.
I haven't auditioned its DAC level matched and "blind" so make no comment on it.
About 10 years ago I compared a range of DACs from the DAC part of my Metric Halo recorder to a Linn Klimax and level matched the differences i was sure would be there turned out to be negligible. My intention had been to hear how much better the high end DACs (I was using a Goldmund but it was too old to play high res files) were worth over more modest ones since I wanted to play high res files but had just retired and would prefer not to spend Goldmund money.
I have used the Korg recording grandchildren and birdsong since proper microphones and mains powered recorder don't lend themselves to that.
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Curious if anyone is going the route of using portable recorders as DAPs, or for those not doing it, why not? I started a thread on the Tascam DR-05X but got no responses. I have one of those, and I also have an Olympus LS-P4 on order. Going this route, no streaming, but can play wav files from microSD. And they have the added advantage of better recording capability than a phone.

I have a DR-05x as well. But I'm not sure what the point would be of using it as a dap. I mean I guess it might work ok, but if you have no intention of using it as a recorder then why not get any of a number of similarly priced daps that have nicer screens and interfaces for music file managing and are considerably less clumsy in a physical sense? I have a Fiio M6 as well and for listening to music it's far better. I wouldn't want to carry the Tascam around just to listen to music.
 
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AudioStudies

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I have a DR-05x as well. But I'm not sure what the point would be of using it as a dap. I mean I guess it might work ok, but if you have no intention of using it as a recorder then why not get any of a number of similarly priced daps that have nicer screens and interfaces for music file managing and are considerably less clumsy in a physical sense? I have a Fiio M6 as well and for listening to music it's far better. I wouldn't want to carry the Tascam around just to listen to music.
Thanks for those thoughts. I guess Amir and others have concluded that the stand-alone DAPs don't offer as much value as some of the LG phones for music playback. I agree that screen resolution on the DR-05X could be a lot nicer, and the folder system could be a lot better. I just ordered a new Samsung phone, that had been highly reviewed for its audio, so I will give that a try as a DAP also. My Olympus hasn't arrived yet, but I am hoping that I like the screen and folder management better than the Tascam. I guess one advantage of using a portable recorder as a DAP would be having the record ability handy, in case some interesting sounds occur. How do you like the DR-05X for recording?
 
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Sgt. Ear Ache

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Oh absolutely smartphones can be great daps. My issue was the lack of a headphone jack on the newer Iphones. I keep losing the adapter dongles lol. The M6 is also powerful enough to drive some more demanding headphones if one wanted to. I also like having a separate device with it's own battery that is dedicated to music only. And of course the Iphones can't use SD cards. My phone is provided through my work so Iphone is it for me, which is fine ftmp.

The DR-05x is great for recording. Certainly for my needs anyway. However, it occasionally seems to lock up on me such that it stops responding at all and I have to remove a battery to power it down and reset it. You ever have that happen?
 
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AudioStudies

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The DR-05x is great for recording. Certainly for my needs anyway. However, it occasionally seems to lock up on me such that it stops responding at all and I have to remove a battery to power it down and reset it. You ever have that happen?
Mine just arrived, and I haven't had an opportunity to record with it yet, just tried it out for playback. It never locked up in playback. My new Samsung phone has the microSD and headphone jack. It is an S10 Plus, their flagship in 2019. Interesting (and sad) that the 2020 Samsung flagships do not have headphone jacks.
 

LTig

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I sometimes used an Edirol R09 mobile flash card recorder to play digital audio stored on a 32GB SD card via its optical SPDIF output. After I got a smart phone with Blutooth I bought a BT receiver with SPDIF out and use this since, just for reasons of convenience.
 

Tks

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Simply not, because phones do it better from just a cursory glance at recorders and the purpose they better serve as?

Like, it has nothing to do with performance or anything, but just the design of the hardware and software is better tailored to using a phone as a DAP in my opinion. (This is debatable on a per device basis).

Imagine trying to have a massive collection of properly metadata rich albums, and then imagine scrolling through thousands of them on a field recorder. I can't imagine intuitive design for a use-case of that sort is something UI designers of field recorders of that size and such is something they've taken into account.

And the biggest reason why not, is because phones have become so essential, I can't imagine a reason to carry a phone, and then the field recorder if I had the intention to listen to music. Two devices at the same time when out and about I can't imagine is something comfortable in your pockets (I'd toss out phones and keys themselves as well if I could afford to do so).

Especially if you own something like a modern phone, where the function increases far above a specialized device with a singular purpose.

Which brings me to my biggest critiques of dedicated DAPs also. Their performance is subpar(relatively), their cost approaches smartphones and outdoes some, and then the fact that almost all of them are transitioning to Android based OS's and the slog that comes along with general purpose OS's like it - further leaves me perplexed as to why people buy them. I toss it up to being wealthy enough, and impartial to being burdened with multiple devices.

One other personal reason, is it would be weird walking around out and about. People would wonder what I'm doing with such a device vs using a phone or something hipster-ish like an older iPod.
 
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AudioStudies

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Yeah, the file management thing is a bit troubling. If one is out in the country or mountains and wants to be away from a phone, the 2nd device seems to make some sense (leave phone in the car), and then with record ability to catch Elks bugles, or waterfalls, other sounds of nature. I know some phones can record also, but not as well as these dedicated devices. Not sure I understand cost being that much of an issue, as the Olympus LS-P4 can be had for $150. I concede that compared to many smartphones playback performance relatively subpar, but not awful. Please don't chalk me up to being wealthy = LOL. We live in Colorado, and have access to a mountain cabin owned by my wife and her two brothers. It is less than 2 hours drive, is at 8500 feet, and not to far from Rocky Mountain National Park. I hope to do some field recording, and listening to music without having to worry about the phone ringing. Although some of the areas up there, it wouldn't ring anyway.
People would wonder what I'm doing with such a device
Lets hope they don't think you are a spy.
 
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AudioStudies

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Also, going to the gym where one just wants to listen to music on headphones and workout, without being bothered by phone calls.
 

Tks

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Also, going to the gym where one just wants to listen to music on headphones and workout, without being bothered by phone calls.

Airplane Mode, is a quick toggle on basically all phones. Turns off all radios on the phone entirely.

Also, going to the gym where one just wants to listen to music on headphones and workout, without being bothered by phone calls.

Honestly, with the way some people are, I wouldn't be surprised I'm just trying to encroach in their personal space. Like if I sat down at a starbucks with that thing on the table, I wouldn't think it would go well.

I know some phones can record also, but not as well as these dedicated devices. If one is out in the country or mountains and wants to be away from a phone, the 2nd device seems to make some sense (leave phone in the car), and then with record ability to catch Elks bugles, or waterfalls, other sounds of nature. I know some phones can record also, but not as well as these dedicated devices.

Well, I think the mic's you're using are going to be more of the concern rather than the recorder. LG phones for example have 24-bit 192kHz recording capability, where you can choose WAV, FLAC, MP3, or AAC. This is far better than any handheld recorder that I know of (at least for formats, but recording bit-depth, and sample rate are only now approaching 24-bit 192kHz from Tascam for example). WAV is okay, but stupid since it doesn't conventionally support metadata, and the format is simply bloated from a storage perspective. So if you're chronicling large swathes of samples of field recordings, I imagine metadata lacking, and large WAV files are annoying (annoying due to size, and annoying that you probably would want to do conversion to something like FLAC anyway). The fact that these recorders don't have proper hardware encoders to support on-the-fly conversion is a bit sad, considering they're dedicated for something like field recording, and some only support, what? 128GB's of storage at best, while some phones support Dual SD cards totaling potentially 2TB's easily these days (2x 1TB SD Cards).

Now obviously I understand handheld field recorders that are a bit more upscale ($300-$700), you get proper features a phone will never have (XLR connectors or ability to use various types of add-on microphones, or more channels, and obviously professional aspects like that, which are specialized for the purpose). But now we're not really talking about using recorders for listening to music at that point. We're talking about recorders that are mostly going to be used for field recording, and secondarily used for listening to music. And if that's the case going forward, obviously opting for a field recorder makes far more sense.

Another issue I have with recorders, you have for instance a $300 DR-100MKIII from Tascam (finally 192kHz, which I don't really care about, but is interesting to see they're making progress at least from some aspect in terms of newer hardware) . When I look at the ADC chip they use, it's basically a $3 SKU from AKM (AK4558) that's at least half a decade old. I know I can't expect much, but I'd expect more, and I'd hope for things like in reviews talking about how sensitive the devices are to interference AT LEAST).

But I'm off topic too much. The whole thing was about using the device for listening to music.

One thing I will agree and I think is heavily in the field recording favor, is the ergonomics. Fuck touchscreen-exclusive operations for something like recordings. I want buttons I can operate without having to hold the device in some weird cramp-inducing way just to avoid accidental button presses. It's nice to have a field recoder due to ergonomics, and ease of use and being able to press buttons without having to look at the device to make sure it registered, or you didn't miss a touch operation by overshooting the button by accident or something. For recordings, this aspect blows phones to pieces EVEN IF phones were perhaps better sound-quality wise or whatever else.
 
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AudioStudies

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Not off topic at all, I enjoy hearing about what DACs they have, etc. My home music collection is about 700 GB now and it is all untagged WAV files, and 98% of it is in 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. A limited amount of that will be transferred to microSD for my portable use. I won't do any extensive amount of field recording, as we typically only make it up to the mountain cabin a few times a year and the cabin is only usable during the warm months. For my casual uses, of going to the gym, and limited field recording, I think they may work fine for me. Yes, I suppose I could take my new phone, that just arrived today, and use it in airplane mode, and I may try that. The Olympus LP-S4 just arrived today also. The thing is tiny !!! File management seems to be much better than with the Tascam DR=05X, however on the Olympus I have to turn the volume near max to get a comfortable level. So far, I have been able to get it loud enough on the wav files that I have played, but I have concerns that on some wav files I play in the future it may max out before I can get it to a comfortable level. I hear you about the microphone thing, but I think with these portable recorders even with their built in microphones not being anywhere near top of the line, I think still better than the phone. Not sure at this point whether I will invest in an external mic at some future time. I have never been much of a phone person, and I am hoping by getting this high end Samsung S-10 Plus that I will learn more about phones, particularly how to use them well as DAPs. For less critical listening, or in environments where I am concerned the phone might get damaged, i will likely use these portable recorders. Thanks everyone, for commenting.
 
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AudioStudies

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If I wanted to find out what DACs are used in Tascam DR-05X and the Olympus LS-P4, how would I go about it?
 

Tks

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My home music collection is about 700 GB now and it is all untagged WAV files, and 98% of it is in 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.

Sounds like a nightmare I'd wake up to (I wouldn't know what to do with that lol).

I hear you about the microphone thing, but I think with these portable recorders even with their built in microphones not being anywhere near top of the line, I think still better than the phone.

For sure better than any phone I would say.

If I wanted to find out what DACs are used in Tascam DR-05X and the Olympus LS-P4, how would I go about it?

Like with anything on the web, pray that their "Specs" page contains it, or their manuals. Or contact the company and ask directly. Spec pages suck so much in the modern day, I don't know why they even have them anymore.
 
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AudioStudies

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Sounds like a nightmare I'd wake up to (I wouldn't know what to do with that lol).
ROFL - often, I don't either. A lot of that has been copied onto USB thumb drives and played back in Cambridge 851 (sometimes fed to other DACs). The Cambridge is pretty darn good at treating the folders the way Windows does, so doing pretty well in that regard. As I have been acquiring these recording devices (one stationary, and now two portable), file management has become more of a challenge, but not completely unmanageable. On my one computer-based system, I just go to the folders were the files are located and click the mouse and Windows Media takes over from there. So, although this music isn't tagged it has been organized to computer folders.
 
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Tks

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ROFL - often, I don't either. A lot of that has been copied onto USB thumb drives and played back in Cambridge 851 (sometimes fed to other DACs). The Cambridge is pretty darn good at treating the folders the way Windows does, so doing pretty well in that regard. As I have been acquiring these recording devices (one stationary, and now two portable), file management has become more of a challenge, but not completely unmanageable. On my one computer-based system, I just go to the folders were the files are located and click the mouse and Windows Media takes over from there. So, although this music isn't tagged it has been organized to computer folders.

Thank goodness for that, for some reason, I just thought it was 1 folder, 1000's of files in a single folder. >_<
 
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AudioStudies

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With my Audeze Sine headphones, I like the sound coming from both of these new portable units, the Tascam DR-05X and the Olympus LS-P4. With the Tascam I also tried the HD-6XX headphones, but I had the sense the unit was struggling to drive those cans (although it didn't sound all that bad). One slightly inconvenient thing about Olympus is that the microSD slot is located inside the battery compartment, so it is a bit annoying when you want to swap out cards. The Tascam is physically larger, and although not really too large, I would prefer a size somewhere in-between the size of these two units. The Olympus is just a little bit too tiny, such that it is slightly hard to push the small buttons and controls. May be a while before I test these babies out for recording. Olympus much better file management.
 
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