Poor Man's Neumann KH120II

[Steve Dallas]

Don't hate me for this one. I could just use a little experience from my well-regarded fellow forumites...

I am changing up my home studio and my current monitors are too large (Kali IN-5) for the new setup. Of the monitors I have heard that would be the correct size for the new situation, the KH120II is my favorite, with the caveat I have not heard them in my room. They have the right amount of bass extension for me, are ruler flat in response, have very low distortion, and are the right size as mentioned before. I just don't want to pay $2000 USD for a new pair. (New and under full warranty is important to me for this type of purchase, so used is not an option.)

Am I overlooking another, less expensive monitor with the same or similar characteristics?

I am also open to passives plus a balanced desktop amplifier.

I have Dirac and ample PEQ available to correct any FR anomalies and to extend bass a few Hz without increasing distortion too much.

Are there good alternatives, or should I buy once and cry once to purchase my end-game small monitors?

 

[Jaxjax]

Audio First Fidelia ? maybe still to big ?

 

[Ellebob]

What are the size constraints?
Revel M105 maybe? A little smaller than the IN-5.

Genelc 8030? Smaller and a little less than KH120 in price

 

[fordiebianco]

Adam Audio T7V?

 

[kemmler3D]

Ascend Sierra LX is close to ruler-flat and costs about $500 less, but is passive. I would say they compete.

The KH120II are badass, I doubt you will regret owning them if you shell out. Costly to be sure, but people don't say "buy once, cry once" without shedding a few tears for their wallets.

 

[staticV3]

Am I overlooking another, less expensive monitor with the same or similar characteristics?

Does that include the built-in room correction? If so, then definitely not.

Though I guess not since you mentioned Dirac.

A cheaper monitor with similar size and distortion, but not quite as well extended is the Genelec 8030C.

 

[psykano]

Have you checked out the KH 80? Similarly flat FR but with about ~10 Hz less bass extension:

Easily compare loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

 

[Steve Dallas]

What are the size constraints?
Revel M105 maybe? A little smaller than the IN-5.

Genelc 8030? Smaller and a little less than KH120 in price

The Neumanns are 287 x 182 x 227 mm; (11.3 " x 7.16 " x 8.94"). That is just about ideal. I could go perhaps 1" taller and 1" deeper.

Adam Audio T7V?

I have had Adams in the past and am not really a fan of AMT type tweeters.

Does that include the built-in room correction? If so, then definitely not.

Though I guess not since you mentioned Dirac.

A cheaper monitor with similar size and distortion, but not quite as well extended is the Genelec 8030C.

Neumann's room correction is a $350 add-on. I already have a license for the Dirac VST and have unlimited PEQ on my mains bus, although loading into the monitors themselves IS the most convenient solution.

The Genelec 8030C is also on my short list. I just find the Isopod thingies to be goofy and limiting, like something I will have to work around rather than with.

Have you checked out the KH 80? Similarly flat FR but with about ~10 Hz less bass extension:

Easily compare loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

I have. At the same time as the KH120. It sounds like a small speaker straining to impersonate a bigger speaker. It's probably fine with a sub, but I am not planning to use a sub in this case. This setup is for tracking where sub-bass is not really needed.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Neumann KH 120 II Bundle

Bundle offer comprising 2x Neumann KH 120 II Active Studio Nearfield Monitor Drivers: 5.25" woofer and 1" tweeter, Frequency range: 44 - 21,000 Hz (+/- 3 dB), Max. SPL 116.8 dB, Output power: 145 W woofer, 100 W tweeter (THD+N with limiter...

www.thomannmusic.com

2x Neumann KH 120 II = $1,479​

 

[fordiebianco]

I have had Adams in the past and am not really a fan of AMT type tweeters.

Interesting. May I ask why?

 

[Steve Dallas]

Interesting. May I ask why?

I had a pair of A7s for years until one of the plate amps died.

Superficially they are ugly and I have to look at them for hours every day.

Historically, they have had poor vertical directivity, limiting placement in any given desk environment, and they cannot be placed on their sides when needed. Although in reading a recent review here, it looks like Adam has more or less solved the vertical problem.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Half joking, half serious.

Google Nest Audio Speaker Review

This is a review, teardown, detailed measurements, listening tests and EQ of Google Audio Nest "smart" streaming speaker. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member. List price is US $99.99 but I see it as low as US $65. While not very unique in its looks, the Nest Audio nicely fits in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Steve Dallas]

This is also half joking, half not...

They are barely bigger than the HK120. With directivity that good, the FR can easily be EQ'd into submission, except maybe for those resonances around 1KHz.

A pair of these for $200 plus a $200 balanced amp from the likes of Fosi or Topping and I have a true poor man's solution.

Horizontal dispersion is about 5 degrees narrower than the Neumann and about 10 degrees narrower than the Genelec. Not sure if I would like that, but this is true nearfield and freestanding (nearest wall >5 feet away), so it may not matter. Always room dependent and subjective of course.

 

[jean-benoit]

i have the KH150 and love them + if you are in a less ideal space, the MA1 correction works really well.
the only other speaker who blew me away for its size and and specially for its price is the iloud mtm mk2. they also have DSP correction and you should give them a try if you dont want to spend the money for neumann monitors. stereo imaging and bass output is amazing. due to their size, they perform best at low or medium listening levels.

 

[DoctorRobert]

This is also half joking, half not...

View attachment 429644

They are barely bigger than the HK120. With directivity that good, the FR can easily be EQ'd into submission, except maybe for those resonances around 1KHz.

A pair of these for $200 plus a $200 balanced amp from the likes of Fosi or Topping and I have a true poor man's solution.

Horizontal dispersion is about 5 degrees narrower than the Neumann and about 10 degrees narrower than the Genelec. Not sure if I would like that, but this is true nearfield and freestanding (nearest wall >5 feet away), so it may not matter. Always room dependent and subjective of course.

I have the predecessor of these (the Q100) that Amir was not so fond of. I use them -with a subwoofer- as monitors, corrected with REW/Equalizer APO/Amir's measurement, and I could not be happier. The caveat is that I do only use them for my own enjoyment, so I don't know if they are revealing enough for professional use. I had the Q100s left over from another application, and I found their perfect use for me. I am occasionally eying speakers that measure better, but in all honesty I cannot think of anything missing in my current setup.
My 2 cents: give the Q150s a try if you can get them cheap and ditch them / sell them if they don't work for you. Consider plugging the reflex port if you combine them with a subwoofer.

 

[mj30250]

Ascend Sierra LX is close to ruler-flat and costs about $500 less, but is passive. I would say they compete.

The KH120II are badass, I doubt you will regret owning them if you shell out. Costly to be sure, but people don't say "buy once, cry once" without shedding a few tears for their wallets.

I have the LXs and KH 150s. They are much more similar than not. The less costly and smaller step-down Ascend model is the Sierra-1 V2 at $1000/pr. It would likely compare favorably to the 120 II, but obviously you need to bring your own power.

 

[Steve Dallas]

i have the KH150 and love them + if you are in a less ideal space, the MA1 correction works really well.
the only other speaker who blew me away for its size and and specially for its price is the iloud mtm mk2. they also have DSP correction and you should give them a try if you dont want to spend the money for neumann monitors. stereo imaging and bass output is amazing. due to their size, they perform best at low or medium listening levels.

Thanks for the Neumann vote. I borrowed at set of ILoud MTMs. There is a lot to like about them, but the vertical dispersion restricts placement too much for my liking thanks to the MTM design. The KH120's vertical dispersion is very, very good for an MT design at about +30 / -10 degrees, making them more forgiving.

My typical listening level is averaging ~75dB with peaks in the low to mid 80s at a distance of 3 to 4' (1 to 1.3M). So not very loud. I check my mixes on a pair of KEF R3s in 2.0 and a pair of Revel F206s in 2.0 and 2.2. Those go louder.

I have the predecessor of these (the Q100) that Amir was not so fond of. I use them -with a subwoofer- as monitors, corrected with REW/Equalizer APO/Amir's measurement, and I could not be happier. The caveat is that I do only use them for my own enjoyment, so I don't know if they are revealing enough for professional use. I had the Q100s left over from another application, and I found their perfect use for me. I am occasionally eying speakers that measure better, but in all honesty I cannot think of anything missing in my current setup.
My 2 cents: give the Q150s a try if you can get them cheap and ditch them / sell them if they don't work for you. Consider plugging the reflex port if you combine them with a subwoofer.

What caused me to think about this Q150 idea is I have a pair of Q100s flanking the TV in my living room. I chose them for the front ports, small size, and assumption they would beat most or all soundbars. (The fact they were on a blowout sale for $180 did not hurt either.) And I am quite impressed with them. The extra brightness doesn't seem to matter in that room, and they take EQ very well should I want to EQ them. They have been doing their thing for the past 6 years, and the whole family has enjoyed them.

I theory, I could get an idea of what to expect from Q150s buy buying a small amp and borrowing them from the living room for a few days. I have a pair of Kali IN-5s for comparison. Because I listen lower than what might excite panel and other resonances, and bring up distortion, this might be a killer low rent solution.

Too bad the bass shelf takes the LS50 out of the running.

I have the LXs and KH 150s. They are much more similar than not. The less costly and smaller step-down Ascend model is the Sierra-1 V2 at $1000/pr. It would likely compare favorably to the 120 II, but obviously you need to bring your own power.

I have been eyeballing this as well. Great looking specs and measurements. I wish it was 2" shorter in height and used an OTS midwoofer for serviceability. If I go passive, it is near the top of my list. Good recommendation.

 

[kyuu]

The only thing about the Q150s is, like most lower-end 2-way coaxials, their modulation distortion is quite high. You can see this from Erin's data on the Q3 Meta:

But, if you've heard them and you like them, then that might not be an issue for you. Also of course in near-field you'll naturally be listening at lower levels in the first place.

 

[fordiebianco]

I had a pair of A7s for years until one of the plate amps died.

Superficially they are ugly and I have to look at them for hours every day.

Historically, they have had poor vertical directivity, limiting placement in any given desk environment, and they cannot be placed on their sides when needed. Although in reading a recent review here, it looks like Adam has more or less solved the vertical problem.

Fair enough. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I suppose I should update this with the resolution. Thank you all for your valuable input.

I found a pair of KH120 II with the measurement mic for $1800 shipped from an authorized dealer and pulled the trigger. They should arrive tomorrow. Hopefully they truly are my end-game small monitors.

I do plan to test them against my KEF Q100s EQ'd to match FR as closely as possible. That should prove very enlightening.