Poll, what styles of music genres do you very regularly listen to? You who vote for: Other, please tell us which genre it is. We are curious.

[DanielT]

Having looked through those I'm more convinced than ever that genres are a useless construct. Many bands I like are cited in so many genres that they become meaningless.

All pop music is influenced by previously made and added a little changes, mixed a little. Like Rock And Roll:

Then all the exciting fusions that spawned from styles of music that even have fusion in the name.

An automatically generated Spotify list, take it with a grain of salt regarding the title:

 

[Soniclife]

I wasn't aware of that. I'll give it a try, thanks.

The other once a week shows presented my musicians are worth exploring, none of them seem bound by the playlist, and are much more interesting because of it.

 

[AudioSceptic]

It is probably possible that it can be done but but it is not something that I can do.

Is the data available, suitably anonymised of course? If we are talking about how many voted for 1,2,3, etc., genres, I think I could do that.

 

[DanielT]

Is the data available, suitably anonymised of course? If we are talking about how many voted for 1,2,3, etc., genres, I think I could do that.

I don't know. After 24 hours, the start post is locked, so I can't go in and change it or see how it looks. The only thing I see now is what you see too.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I don't know. After 24 hours, the start post is locked, so I can't go in and change it or see how it looks. The only thing I see now is what you see too.

I see. I wonder if our esteemed host has access to the data? FWIW I'd be surprised if most of us didn't vote for multiple or most genres.

 

[Galliardist]

I’d like to call out Qobuz and whoever categorises music there: About 99% of the weekly new content is “Alternative and Indie”. For goodness’ sake, even a Yes album made it to Alternative and Indie… what does it actually mean?

 

[ahofer]

It would make more sense to list those I generally don’t listen to:

• Serialists
• Pop from Asia or Europe (not so often Americas either, but harder to avoid)
• Most metal sub-genres
• Easy listening/soft jazz

I’ve found something I like most everywhere else.

 

[somebodyelse]

I couldn't agree more, which is why I remove all genres other than Classical, Jazz or World automatically added to albums ripped into our library. Example that just came to mind: Metal is powerful and nasty, right, so why isn't a lot of Hüsker Dü Metal? 'Diane' (by the much missed Grant Hart) is a prime example.

Why do Classical, Jazz and World get a pass?
That's a fair example, with plenty of others in a similar area. There are some genres with huge overlaps and poorly defined borders, like punk/hardcore/metal. But it gets really interesting when musicians start mixing elements associated with genres that aren't normally thought of as having much/any overlap - often followed by someone coining a new genre to try to contain it. King Crimson get cited in a ridiculous number of (sub-)genres. Igorrr pluck things from all over the place. Shining and Fishbone have different takes on a brass section in what's otherwise arguably metal. Do Heilung play metal or World? Eliza Carthy spans a fair range mostly on a continuum - I'm not quite sure what 'Big Machine' would count as. Dissident Noize Factory mix punk, EDM and fiddle. I'm not even going to try placing Mike Patton let alone Stockhausen.

 

[DanielT]

I’d like to call out Qobuz and whoever categorises music there: About 99% of the weekly new content is “Alternative and Indie”. For goodness’ sake, even a Yes album made it to Alternative and Indie… what does it actually mean?

The development is going at rocket speed. The algorithms will get better and give more pinpointed customized suggestions AND, if you want, it will probably be possible to choose algorithms yourself that give more unexpected suggestions. Better than what exists today.

In addition, within a few years, AI generated music plus the algorithms that are then available will create completely new personal music on tap for those who want it. It already exists today but is still quite so hm let's say stereotypically, generic middle of the road dreary crap. But it is now.
The only thing I can think of now, where you can listen to AI, is relaxing, ambient, background music, which so many people seem to like these days. Is active music listening perhaps on the decline? Or not considering the vinyl trend? Many younger people, buy and listen to entire records.

Said above is just free speculation or a rant, waffle on my part.

 

[somebodyelse]

All pop music is influenced by previously made and added a little changes, mixed a little. Like Rock And Roll:

No surprise there, and the line continues on through assorted metal genres, with some borrowing from the earlier blues musicians along the way - among other influences. Lemmy famously maintained Motorhead were a rock'n'roll band even though much of the world maintained they were metal.

Then all the exciting fusions that spawned from styles of music that even have fusion in the name.

I'm not convinced they're a useful label though - they don't usually tell you what it's fused with! At least 'pirate metal' gives some idea. I'm not sure what people would expect from 'trainspotting folk punk' though.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Why do Classical, Jazz and World get a pass?
That's a fair example, with plenty of others in a similar area. There are some genres with huge overlaps and poorly defined borders, like punk/hardcore/metal. But it gets really interesting when musicians start mixing elements associated with genres that aren't normally thought of as having much/any overlap - often followed by someone coining a new genre to try to contain it. King Crimson get cited in a ridiculous number of (sub-)genres. Igorrr pluck things from all over the place. Shining and Fishbone have different takes on a brass section in what's otherwise arguably metal. Do Heilung play metal or World? Eliza Carthy spans a fair range mostly on a continuum - I'm not quite sure what 'Big Machine' would count as. Dissident Noize Factory mix punk, EDM and fiddle. I'm not even going to try placing Mike Patton let alone Stockhausen.

Y'know, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's time to drop those too. A lot of "modern classical" (a dubious description in the first place) overlaps with "ambient and experimental rock", doesn't it? Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Brian Eno? Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth? (Just a couple of many examples I could give.)

 

[AudioSceptic]

It would make more sense to list those I generally don’t listen to:

• Serialists
• Pop from Asia or Europe (not so often Americas either, but harder to avoid)
• Most metal sub-genres
• Easy listening/soft jazz

I’ve found something I like most everywhere else.

I think I'm with you there, but are you talking about Classical serialists or something else?

 

[DanielT]

Y'know, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's time to drop those too. A lot of "modern classical" (a dubious description in the first place) overlaps with "ambient and experimental rock", doesn't it? Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Brian Eno? Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth? (Just a couple of many examples I could give.)

Speaking of classical music and influences.Classical music has long been influenced by folk music.

As classical music evolved over the centuries, the influence of folk music can be heard in the works of various composers. For example, the Romantic era saw a renewed interest in folk music, with composers such as Franz Schubert and Robert Schumann drawing inspiration from folk melodies and dances. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, composers such as Antonín Dvořák and Béla Bartók took a more scientific approach to folk music, collecting and studying folk melodies from their respective countries and incorporating them into their compositions.

‍Also "modern classical":

The influence of folk music on classical composers has continued to the present day. Many contemporary classical composers, such as Arvo Pärt and Osvaldo Golijov, have incorporated elements of folk music from various cultures into their works, using traditional instruments and musical styles to create a unique sound.

The Influence of Folk Music on Classical Composers

In this article, we will delve into the history of this connection and explore some of the ways in which folk music has influenced classical music. Whether you are a classical music enthusiast looking to discover new connections or a beginner interested in taking piano lessons in Los Angeles...

www.arabesqueconservatory.com

Of course also by jazz. Most famous piece is probably:

Rhapsody in Blue: celebrating 100 years of Gershwin’s groundbreaking classical-jazz masterpiece

With his highly original melodic gift, Gershwin blended jazz and classical elements to create the iconic and enduring Rhapsody in Blue.

theconversation.com

The other way. Pop-Rock songs that are based on classical music, there are quite a few of them. Some examples:

 

[bluefuzz]

I was shocked and saddened to learn that he died on 19 Jul at the age of a mere 58

That's sad. I wasn't aware Toumani Diabeté had died either. I was lucky enough to see him live about 15 years ago with his (at the time) teenage son Sidiki at an outdoor concert on a warm summer evening. Magical.

 

[bluefuzz]

So.. no Nordic Deathmetal Polka Folkpunk?

Well, there is Korpiklaani ...

Or perhaps Finntroll ... ?

 

[AudioSceptic]

That's sad. I wasn't aware Toumani Diabeté had died either. I was lucky enough to see him live about 15 years ago with his (at the time) teenage son Sidiki at an outdoor concert on a warm summer evening. Magical.

I am so envious. Can I ask where that was?

I've still got a few gaps to fill...

 

[somebodyelse]

Well, there is Korpiklaani ...

More drinking than death surely? This one might not be the finest example since most metalheads will recognise the tune from Anthrax. A few might know they were covering Joe Jackson.

We're on the same page with Finntroll though. And they're both fun live.

 

[bluefuzz]

If you go a hundred or two years back then there were basically two 'genres' of music: classical and folk. Classical music was learned through formal apprenticeship or academic training from 'established' theories of melody, harmony and composition. Most often played from a written score with little opportunity for improvisation. Conversely, folk music was typically based around rythmic and melodic patterns learned informally 'by ear' from family members or local community. Songs and tunes, even if they did have a single 'author' quickly morphed and changed through improvisation and the imperfect nature of human memory.

If you accept this skeletal taxonomy of 'cultural transmission' then most popular genres of music throughout the 20th century could be seen as subgenres of 'Folk Music', including Blues, Jazz, Country, Rock, Soul, Metal etc. Once recorded music was a thing commonly available to everyone (say post WWII) then formal 'academic/classical' music began to seriously inform 'popular' genres and vice versa.

Nowadays, a 'metal' or 'jazz' musician is as likely to have as much formal training, sight reading ability and thorough grasp of 'theory' as any 'classical' musician.

 

[Robin L]

If you go a hundred or two years back then there were basically two 'genres' of music: classical and folk. Classical music was learned through formal apprenticeship or academic training from 'established' theories of melody, harmony and composition. Most often played from a written score with little opportunity for improvisation. Conversely, folk music was typically based around rythmic and melodic patterns learned informally 'by ear' from family members or local community. Songs and tunes, even if they did have a single 'author' quickly morphed and changed through improvisation and the imperfect nature of human memory.

If you accept this skeletal taxonomy of 'cultural transmission' then most popular genres of music throughout the 20th century could be seen as subgenres of 'Folk Music', including Blues, Jazz, Country, Rock, Soul, Metal etc. Once recorded music was a thing commonly available to everyone (say post WWII) then formal 'academic/classical' music began to seriously inform 'popular' genres and vice versa.

Nowadays, a 'metal' or 'jazz' musician is as likely to have as much formal training, sight reading ability and thorough grasp of 'theory' as any 'classical' musician.

Remember that 100 years back brings us to 1924. We are well on our way to Jazz and the songs now known as "The Great American Songbook" such as the work of Irving Berlin. This is popular music as a commercial enterprise, not "folk music".

 

[bluefuzz]

I am so envious. Can I ask where that was?

Copenhagen Jazz Festival around 2008 I think ...