Poll: What % of your system investment is in your speakers?

[Aprude51]

I’m in the process of replacing a hand-me-down audio system (old Infinity speakers & Lepai amp) with something better and have been thinking about the ideal split of investment between speakers and other components.

I think most here would agree you get the best audio quality for your money by buying the highest quality speakers you can afford, investing in room treatment and EQ, and minimizing spend on everything else. Obviously not everyone is optimizing for that, and even if they are, there are plenty of reasons to invest more in other components (ease of use, reliability, quality, supporting certain brands, etc.,). I'm curious to hear how everyone approached divvying up their audio dollars.

I was working with a relatively modest budget, and so was definitely looking to maximize my "bang for the buck". Here’s my breakdown (overall spend ~$2k)
- Speaker: 65% | $1200 (Revel F35s, open box )
- Source + EQ: 20% | $400 (DIY HTPC, also for Plex use)
- Dac: 5% | $100 (SMSL Sanskrit 10th)
- Amp: 5% | $100 (Sony STRDH190, open box)
- Room Treatment: 5% | $100, (DIY, 10” corner traps, Corning 705)

I was tempted to spend more on a nicer, better measuring amp & DAC, but decided against it. I felt that if I were to spend more, and was really trying to get the best audio quality for my investment, I should have made the jump to a used pair of Revel F206es (~$2200).

 

[Old Listener]

powered speakers in all systems

Main system - 77% including dedicated music PC and DAC
Home office system - 75% not including my personal PC used for PC applications
TV watching system - 56% including TV, headphones and speakers

 

[Purité Audio]

The speakers are the system, practically.
Keith

 

[digitalfrost]

I voted for < 30%, but you have to take into account the absolute value of the system. If you have little money to spend, by all means put it into the speakers. You can't build good bookshelves below 300€/pair, and even that is lowballing as fuck. Good speakers cost 600-800€/pair if you get a great deal, no matter the size.

I would say if you cross the 1200-1500€/pair barrier, things are looking bright, and if you spend much more than 2000-3000€ on your speakers, it's probably not worth the money.

The reason I voted this way is: I own KEF LS50 that I bough used for 700€, and I currently use ER18DXT DIY speakers that probably cost me 600€. I don't know what to improve about either of those. They are accompanied by a custom subwoofer setup, and I usually listen between 78-86dBC, so not that loud.
I also own a ~ 3500€ vinyl setup, and I don't believe you can do vinyl right much below that mark.

I also own a Benchmark AHB2. So asking for percentages....it has its point, but I think speakers hit a wall real fast. Listen to Neumann KH120 for example. They are amazing for the money and they even include the amplifiers.

It's just...speakers are the weakest link in the chain no doubt. But after a certain point, putting a lot of money into speakers just seems pointless to me. They're not that much better. I've heard expensive speakers in hifi studios, I just don't get the appeal.

Sorry for the humblebrag, but you can't discuss percentages without stating absolute values. I just don't think percentages make a lot of sense when it comes to speakers. There is a very hard lower floor when it comes to speaker price and quality, but once you climb that, the improvements are not that great IMHO. I would happily run KEF LS50 for retail price and a cheap (300€) amplifier if I had to.

 

[blackmetalboon]

Using items original retail price...

Main System (2 Channel only) - 9.5%
Second System - 4.5%

 

[mkawa]

loudspeaker system: 75% (that's purchase price. goes way up if you count from retail). actually, there are a few oddball amplifiers that are sitting in a box, so let's conservatively say 65%
sum total of headphone systems: 60% divided between 5 headphones (not counting the alessandro ms1s that i can't find). 90% of my listening time is with er4srs though; my SO likes to roll headphones more than i do these days..

the bottleneck in almost every system is the conversion to longitudinal waves to ear. if ASR is a lesson to anyone, it should be a lesson that diminishing returns sets in _fast_ with modern audio electronics.

 

[JJB70]

As a rule of thumb I would budget 30% for a DAC, 20% for the power chord, 20% for cables, 10% for noise harvesters, 10% for audiophile fuses, 5% for an amplifier and 5% for speakers. And you should budget to spend as much again on some magic rocks.

 

[Aprude51]

I voted for < 30%, but you have to take into account the absolute value of the system. If you have little money to spend, by all means put it into the speakers. You can't build good bookshelves below 300€/pair, and even that is lowballing as fuck. Good speakers cost 600-800€/pair if you get a great deal, no matter the size.

I would say if you cross the 1200-1500€/pair barrier, things are looking bright, and if you spend much more than 2000-3000€ on your speakers, it's probably not worth the money.

The reason I voted this way is: I own KEF LS50 that I bough used for 700€, and I currently use ER18DXT DIY speakers that probably cost me 600€. I don't know what to improve about either of those. They are accompanied by a custom subwoofer setup, and I usually listen between 78-86dBC, so not that loud.
I also own a ~ 3500€ vinyl setup, and I don't believe you can do vinyl right much below that mark.

I also own a Benchmark AHB2. So asking for percentages....it has its point, but I think speakers hit a wall real fast. Listen to Neumann KH120 for example. They are amazing for the money and they even include the amplifiers.

It's just...speakers are the weakest link in the chain no doubt. But after a certain point, putting a lot of money into speakers just seems pointless to me. They're not that much better. I've heard expensive speakers in hifi studios, I just don't get the appeal.

Sorry for the humblebrag, but you can't discuss percentages without stating absolute values. I just don't think percentages make a lot of sense when it comes to speakers. There is a very hard lower floor when it comes to speaker price and quality, but once you climb that, the improvements are not that great IMHO. I would happily run KEF LS50 for retail price and a cheap (300€) amplifier if I had to.

I voted for < 30%, but you have to take into account the absolute value of the system. If you have little money to spend, by all means put it into the speakers. You can't build good bookshelves below 300€/pair, and even that is lowballing as fuck. Good speakers cost 600-800€/pair if you get a great deal, no matter the size.

I would say if you cross the 1200-1500€/pair barrier, things are looking bright, and if you spend much more than 2000-3000€ on your speakers, it's probably not worth the money.

The reason I voted this way is: I own KEF LS50 that I bough used for 700€, and I currently use ER18DXT DIY speakers that probably cost me 600€. I don't know what to improve about either of those. They are accompanied by a custom subwoofer setup, and I usually listen between 78-86dBC, so not that loud.
I also own a ~ 3500€ vinyl setup, and I don't believe you can do vinyl right much below that mark.

I also own a Benchmark AHB2. So asking for percentages....it has its point, but I think speakers hit a wall real fast. Listen to Neumann KH120 for example. They are amazing for the money and they even include the amplifiers.

It's just...speakers are the weakest link in the chain no doubt. But after a certain point, putting a lot of money into speakers just seems pointless to me. They're not that much better. I've heard expensive speakers in hifi studios, I just don't get the appeal.

Sorry for the humblebrag, but you can't discuss percentages without stating absolute values. I just don't think percentages make a lot of sense when it comes to speakers. There is a very hard lower floor when it comes to speaker price and quality, but once you climb that, the improvements are not that great IMHO. I would happily run KEF LS50 for retail price and a cheap (300€) amplifier if I had to.

I can’t say I completely agree with your perspective, though I can appreciate where you’re coming from, especially if you’re happy with your existing speakers. Do you think a similar diminishing marginal return applies to amplifiers as well? And if you do, what motivated you to go with a relative costly amp?

You are correct that absolute values are important, as %s will vary depending on your overall budget envelope. That said, I couldn’t think of a way to ask about both in the poll.

 

[Cahudson42]

50 years ago, in the days of audio brick-and-morter stores, Dynaco ST70, AR-3, we were told: 'Put as much as you can into your speakers. Use what is left for the amp'..

IMO - still true. Put 70-80% into speakers. If headphones, you can get away with less % - $150 -$350, and an equal amount on a DAC and amp.

 

[Phorize]

As a rule of thumb I would budget 30% for a DAC, 20% for the power chord, 20% for cables, 10% for noise harvesters, 10% for audiophile fuses, 5% for an amplifier and 5% for speakers. And you should budget to spend as much again on some magic rocks.

You forgot the tube buffer amp, that should take at least 20% or you’ll risk your system sounding ‘unmusical’.

 

[ernestcarl]

I don’t think the question is specific enough. Is a home theater projector, projector screen, LED monitors, seating furniture etc included? Who would want to stand or sit all day on the floor/an empty room... Thing is, I use a HTPC and a NAS and several TB drives to hold music and movies... then there are a couple large UPS, networking gear for whole house distribution of music etc... is that included in the cost of the “system” for this poll?

 

[digicidal]

I'm in the middle group, but if I used full retail costs for everything... then it would be more like 15%. Reason being that most of my systems have very old gear being "recycled"... so in a sense they're completely depreciated. How much does an 8801A cost today? A 650A? The used market is all over the place, but it seems like ~$650/200 respectively is the average. Since mine work great still, and can work with monitors or amps+passives they're like free preamps with mediocre performance but built in "decent" REQ as well (and HDMI switching). So I don't really include them in the price of the gear - just amps/speakers or both in the case of actives.

 

[BillG]

I'd put most of money into speakers, and I'd cap the spending at $2K USD for them. From what I've heard personally, after that price there's not that much of an improvement in sound quality, but there will be in aesthetics. I'm referring to passives, by the way.

As for a DAC and amp, I wouldn't purchase them separately, but rather get a good quality integrated. ICEpower or Hypex based, take your pick - the latter will have measurably better performance, but whether that will audible over the former is debatable. And, preferably network enabled so I'd not have to purchase a separate streamer.

As for digital sources, any network enabled computing device will do as long as it's got enough processing power do perform some DSP for equalization, etc., and server duties...

 

[reza]

I think you can most easily hear the difference between different speakers, not so easily between amps, and if you claim to hear a difference between DACs I'd roll my eyes at you, like this (◔_◔)

 

[beefkabob]

~80% on speakers, if you include the cost of cables and such. The main speakers are powered with integrated DAC, and I'm including the sub in speaker pricing. I overbought on the sub, I think, but it's so damned good!

 

[KozmoNaut]

I just did the calculations, and it's around 7%. If I include the subs, it's around 55%. I've got my priorities straight

Everything is second-hand, pieced together gradually, and I did use to run some fairly nice active monitors (Adam A5X) before changing circumstances made me go back to passive speakers. The current ones are a decent set I already owned from a secondary setup, so they're acting as placeholders until something nice pops up on the second-hand market. They do sound rather nice for ostensibly being "entry-level", though.

 

[Frank Dernie]

My stuff is old and no longer available now so impossible to say really.
Full range speakers with low distortion and high dynamic range are very expensive, still, unless you go DSP but I don't want a system which needs a network connection.
My main speakers weigh about 115kg each and are pretty well full range and would probably account for around 75% of my system if made today and I ignore my little used record player, so that is how I voted
I do think a good enough amplifier with adequate power into real loudspeaker loads is pretty expensive though, and a major thing for me, it must have a rotary volume control on the remote.

 

[Willem]

CCA: 39 euro
Basic Panasonic BD player: free with the plasma screen
Panasonic plasma screen 42 inch: 900 euro
Linn Sondek LP12/SME 3009/Shure M97XE/Pro-ject Phono EBox Optical. Mostly bought in 1976 so no meaningful current price (I would never buy it now)
RME ADI-2 DAC 995 euro
refurbished Quad 606-2 amplifier: 350 euro (second hand)
Quad 2805 speakers: 5000 euro at the time, ex demo, now 10000 euro new
B&W PV1d subwoofer 1600 euro
Antimode3 8033 dsp room eq: 299 euro
Umik-1 measurement mic: 100 euro
cheap cables

So speakers are indeed by far the largest part.

My desktop system:
desktop computer: PM
ODAC usb DAC: 100 euro
Emotiva Control freak passive volume control: 50 euro
refurbished Quad 405-2 power amplifier: 175 euro (second hand)
Harbeth P3ESR speakers: 2200 euro
Isoacoustics desktop stands: 100 euro
Bass response is equalized with an REW graph uploaded to Equalizer APO on my PC. The proximity of the desk made for a bass hump, even with the stands.

So here too the story is the same: by far the largest part of the budget is in the speakers. Admittedly this was partly possible because I had access to these second hand Quad amplifiers completely refurbished and sold by a retired Quad NL service engineer.

 

[digitalfrost]

I can’t say I completely agree with your perspective, though I can appreciate where you’re coming from, especially if you’re happy with your existing speakers. Do you think a similar diminishing marginal return applies to amplifiers as well? And if you do, what motivated you to go with a relative costly amp?

Probably yes. Let's be honest here, unless you need more than 100W for some reason, there are plenty cheap good-enough amplifiers out there. I got the Benchmark since it's a product I don't have to worry about. Also, it gets really hot here in the summer and I wanted something that a) can cope with the temperatures b) doesn't heat the room up more than necessary. So it was either that, or Class D.

I could've also bought the NC400 DIY modules, I guess they have the best price/performance at the moment, but they are also very bare bones. Once you configure the amps from Nord and Apollon and add taxes, the jump to the AHB2 is not that big. NAD M22 would also have been a contender but I didn't trust them seeing the performance of their other products.

Having 3rd party independent measurements, seeing that it's really that good convinced me. And given the prices other companies charge for their amps, it's not that expensive. So while you might no be able to hear it - you're getting something for your money. I mean the AHB2 is objectively better than cheaper amps. I know that extra money is going into performance.

Back to speakers. Look at the KEF REFERENCE 1:

They are beautiful, especially in real life, I love deep rich paint on the sides. But they are 7000€. What you get compared to other KEF offerings is a nicer enclosure, and a better crossover. And an additional woofer, if you compare with LS50. These are 5800€ more. For 6k, I can build a custom double bass array, fully DSP controlled and still have money left over. How much better are these than LS50?

I think it's harder to compare speakers objectively. Once you move up in price, they become lifestyle products. Luxury products. Sure that's true for all components in hifi, but with speakers, the mark where this happens starts early in the price range I think. Often if you move up in price, you get worse performance. Look at all those ultra expensive speakers measured in Stereophile with horrible frequency response.



This is the KEF R5, you can get a pair for 2500€. Why would I spend more on a speaker?

 

[Ron Texas]

for $100 there are better DAC's than the Sanskrit. Try a Topping D10 for $90.