PMC Speakers

[direstraitsfan98]

Agreed, I'd got a bad case of green-eyed envy over your 4367's. If only I had the room and $.
I'm hoping for good things from the new JBL HDI line due for release after the first of the year and to be able to listen to them at the Tampa show in January.

I use them in my room which is 12x14. I have them setup in a 6x6x6 triangle. So I'm using them near field for sure. I don't think the HDI line will approach 4367 performance in terms of low distortion numbers at high SPL. But for most people it'll be fine. Most people don't like to blast rock music at rock concert levels.

And as for cost, I'm sure you could swing it

 

[Sal1950]

I definitely don't like the BBC LS3/5a sound at all (makes me feel like my ears are plugged)... but as long as they weren't my only speakers, and if I had the room/budget for them... I'd definitely own a pair simply for historical significance.

I agree with everything you said in your post except the part about "I'd definitely own a pair simply for historical significance" but that's just me. I've heard a number of LS3/5 versions over the years and never cared at all for any of them. I guess they'd be OK for music in the elevator ( ) but little more. They had no bass, little on top, couldn't play loud, what's left? Oh yea, background music on an elevator. LOL

 

[digicidal]

I agree with everything you said in your post except the part about "I'd definitely own a pair simply for historical significance" but that's just me. I've heard a number of LS3/5 versions over the years and never cared at all for any of them. I guess they'd be OK for music in the elevator ( ) but little more. They had no bass, little on top, couldn't play loud, what's left? Oh yea, background music on an elevator. LOL

Well, that's why I placed those caveats in there. I'd rather not listen to them at all... but maybe have a couple side tables made with them as the pedestals.

 

[Sal1950]

I don't think the HDI line will approach 4367 performance in terms of low distortion numbers at high SPL. But for most people it'll be fine. Most people don't like to blast rock music at rock concert levels.

And as for cost, I'm sure you could swing it

Oh for sure they won't come close to the 4367s, and I'm looking at the small stand mounts. But I'll have 4 plus the matching center channel so they should provide more than enough SPL in my little room. The system will cost me well over $5k so it will have to provide a significant upgrade in SQ over my current HSU's for me to pull the plug. The only thing I find somewhat lacking in my current rig is inner detail, something I would think the JBL horns should provide? Time will tell.

 

[Sasha]

View attachment 35433

PMC DB1S-A II detailed measurements. Horrendous mess. And I assume you've already found other measurements from Stereophile that show their bass tuning to be a disaster. PMC is just another one of those antiquated UK cottage-industry brands like Graham, Harbeth, Chartwell, Falcon, Stirling, Spendor and to some extent ATC that produce regressive speakers that (wilfully or otherwise) ignore evidence-based best practices that inform the likes of Genelec. And yet fetishised and romanticised to no end - regarded as equals or even superior to brands that put in the effort to keep up with R&D.

I’m v v late to this, but it so happens that I’ve been looking for measurements for the DB1+/DB1SA-II for a while. And they were right here in this forum all along!

I own a pair and was wondering why I could never seemingly get them sounding ‘right’. Rolling off the entire top end by a few dB from around 4.5/5khz fixed the horrible over-brightness, but the biggest problem I had was caused by the transmission line causing horrific nulls in the 200hz region.

I eventually stuffed/blocked the port with foam to try and get rid of the null (semi-successfully I may add) and raised the crossover point on my subs to match, but I’ve since replaced them with a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i I had lying around which I had assumed couldn’t possibly be as good. With a touch of eq boost in the 2khz area these now sound much more true to what I’m putting into them.

Truth is I gave up using the PMCs to inform music production/mix choices as they were just flat out wrong - and coo completely redoing loads of eq from scratch is not really the most enjoyable bit of the music making process. I now just work on IE800s earphones as they’re much more sensible FR-wise and then use the 3010i and a pair of subs to get a feel for soundstage/bass end which is lacking on the ‘phones...

The PMCs are going to be sold on now, as I’ve wasted far far too much time (and money on room treatment) trying to make them sound nice/flat/not odd.

 

[Ilkless]

I’m v v late to this, but it so happens that I’ve been looking for measurements for the DB1+/DB1SA-II for a while. And they were right here in this forum all along!

I own a pair and was wondering why I could never seemingly get them sounding ‘right’. Rolling off the entire top end by a few dB from around 4.5/5khz fixed the horrible over-brightness, but the biggest problem I had was caused by the transmission line causing horrific nulls in the 200hz region.

I eventually stuffed/blocked the port with foam to try and get rid of the null (semi-successfully I may add) and raised the crossover point on my subs to match, but I’ve since replaced them with a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i I had lying around which I had assumed couldn’t possibly be as good. With a touch of eq boost in the 2khz area these now sound much more true to what I’m putting into them.

Truth is I gave up using the PMCs to inform music production/mix choices as they were just flat out wrong - and coo completely redoing loads of eq from scratch is not really the most enjoyable bit of the music making process. I now just work on IE800s earphones as they’re much more sensible FR-wise and then use the 3010i and a pair of subs to get a feel for soundstage/bass end which is lacking on the ‘phones...

The PMCs are going to be sold on now, as I’ve wasted far far too much time (and money on room treatment) trying to make them sound nice/flat/not odd.

PMC somehow manages the feat of both sounding lean and boomy at the same time.

 

[tuga]

The off-axis of the Harbeths are sheer mediocrity. Graphs were posted earlier in this thread. Glaring directivity mismatch.

This blind belief in directivity being the main factor responsible for accurate speaker performance is absurd.
You can easily work around unsmooth off-axis response by listening closer, treating side-wall reflections, opting for a long-wall setup...
And you can have speakers which produce perfect spins but also high distortion (i.e. IL10).

 

[Ilkless]

This blind belief in directivity being the main factor responsible for accurate speaker performance is absurd.
You can easily work around unsmooth off-axis response by listening closer, treating side-wall reflections, opting for a long-wall setup...
And you can have speakers which produce perfect spins but also high distortion (i.e. IL10).

One could work around it... or avoid it at its root. Directivity mismatch tends to be perceived as congestion and a subtle haze in my experience. I'd take perfect spins first and distortion after, based on what evidence that relates preference and auditory perception to spins, vs what evidence for distortion.

 

[DSJR]

PMC somehow manages the feat of both sounding lean and boomy at the same time.

IMF's back in the day had a trick which lost efficiency - allow full reign below 100hz, allow the upper bass suckout but eq the mids in line with it. Anechoically, the sub 100Hz bass was 5db or so up, but from 150hz upwards, surprisingly flat for the standards back then. Later models damped the lines a bit more so this aspect wasn't so severe, but you don't get owt for nowt in trying to get low bass extension. Again (and sorry to go on about it), many smaller 'UK' rooms have bass peaks right where tl's like this dip out, so it can be saved.

I heard and fell in love with the JBL 4367's at a local dealer's audio show and begged said local dealer to consider them as well as the L100mk2. I was the ONLY ONE who expressed any interest at all as they're regarded as a retro-kick speaker and nothing more. Screaming Dynaudio's or elegant looking PMC floor standers though are a very different matter.

 

[Vintage57]

I heard and fell in love with the JBL 4367's

I bought a pair of 4367’s without the benefit of auditioning in my home first.

Long and short of it, with and without miniDSP. I couldn’t get over the listener fatigue. Retro or contemporary is just a label. The fact is they’re just not in the same class as the ATC’s I had at the time. Which I’ve superseded with the Neumann KH420’s The KH420’s are same money as the JBL and include amplification. The JBL’s have a long way to go to catch up. IMHO