PMC Speakers

[Fluffy]

Following the thread about Genelec, I was impressed with the amount of technical detail and measurements that can be found on their website. They truly seem like a company that focuses on accuracy and transparency. I was curious to see if the much hyped PMC can deliver on the same level, and I was very disappointed. Neither their professional nor consumer speakers come with any type of measured frequency response, and even their specs only mention an overall frequency range, not even indicating by how much it deviates from neutrality (for example: 20Hz - 25kHz instead of ± 3 dB 20Hz - 25kHz). The few FR measurements I was able to track down were from reviews of very old products.

Is there somewhere that I can found actual measurements of their speakers? And is the hype based on facts or marketing?

 

[Soniclife]

No experience with their Pro offerings, but the domestic only models have wayward on axis response, often lean bass, and treble peak. They sound tuned to sound impressive in short dems with good recordings to me.

 

[flowjm]

You might consider asking them directly. Their response could prove illuminating.

 

[Ilkless]

Following the thread about Genelec, I was impressed with the amount of technical detail and measurements that can be found on their website. They truly seem like a company that focuses on accuracy and transparency. I was curious to see if the much hyped PMC can deliver on the same level, and I was very disappointed. Neither their professional nor consumer speakers come with any type of measured frequency response, and even their specs only mention an overall frequency range, not even indicating by how much it deviates from neutrality (for example: 20Hz - 25kHz instead of ± 3 dB 20Hz - 25kHz). The few FR measurements I was able to track down were from reviews of very old products.

Is there somewhere that I can found actual measurements of their speakers? And is the hype based on facts or marketing?

PMC DB1S-A II detailed measurements. Horrendous mess. And I assume you've already found other measurements from Stereophile that show their bass tuning to be a disaster. PMC is just another one of those antiquated UK cottage-industry brands like Graham, Harbeth, Chartwell, Falcon, Stirling, Spendor and to some extent ATC that produce regressive speakers that (wilfully or otherwise) ignore evidence-based best practices that inform the likes of Genelec. And yet fetishised and romanticised to no end - regarded as equals or even superior to brands that put in the effort to keep up with R&D.

 

[Fluffy]

Ilkless thanks. Where did you find these measurements?

 

[Ilkless]

Ilkless thanks. Where did you find these measurements?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...loudspeaker-measurements-for-dirt-cheap.6437/

This wonderful German magazine that sells a compilation of extremely detailed measurements taken by an audio engineer in a large anechoic chamber at a university acoustics lab. They only have that PMC measured, but that should be indicative of the level of performance PMC is satisfied with releasing to market.

 

[TimVG]

PMC is just another one of those antiquated UK cottage-industry brands like Graham, Harbeth, Chartwell, Falcon, Stirling, Spendor and to some extent ATC that produce regressive speakers that (wilfully or otherwise) ignore evidence-based best practices that inform the likes of Genelec. And yet fetishised and romanticised to no end - regarded as equals or even superior to brands that put in the effort to keep up with R&D.

^THIS

I'm annoyed to death when I read about the so called transparency and accuracy of these brands - ATC and PMC on top.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Soundstage's list has NRC results for 2 PMC models. Neither look very good IMO.

 

[pozz]

I really wanted a pair of IB2S-AIIs based on reputation alone at one point.

Them and the ATCs are famous for being hard to mix on (a "brutal midrange" is how I've heard it described). Only "really skilled" engineers can make a mix sound good through them. Kind of like on the Auratones or the Yamaha NS10s. That's probably the worst of the pro sound claims.

 

[digititus]

Only "really skilled" engineers can make a mix sound good through them. Kind of like on the Auratones or the Yamaha NS10s.

My buddy (sound engineer) swears by his NS10's. When I asked him why he used them he said "they are fantastic at revealing how bad your mix is."

 

[Soniclife]

Soundstage's list has NRC results for 2 PMC models. Neither look very good IMO.

Not heard those 2 models but they fit with how I hear others from them.
The dip between 100 and 200 on both is some sort of end of the atl cancellation I assume. Much worse than a simple port, but they don't have any USP.

 

[Soniclife]

Graham, Harbeth, Chartwell, Falcon, Stirling, Spendor

I'm happy to give a pass to the legacy models / designs from these companies as they are not pretending to be current sota designs, and they also usually measure better than a lot of new designs making such claims. It's the new designs that get no pass.

 

[TimVG]

My buddy (sound engineer) swears by his NS10's. When I asked him why he used them he said "they are fantastic at revealing how bad your mix is."

Things indeed tend to sound worse with a 6dB boost around 1.8kHz. I'm not sure how that helps anything though.

 

[pozz]

@TimVG What's the speaker in your avatar? Looks like it uses a JBL lens.

 

[TimVG]

@TimVG What's the speaker in your avatar? Looks like it uses a JBL lens.

One I made myself - I have a soft spot for big old speakers .. and with a good anechoic target even those old parts can work -quite- well. See the 'quasi-anechoic' and in room measurement (with no correction above 300hz)

 

[Fluffy]

When I shopped around for active speakers a couple of years back, one of the salespersons asked me what was I looking for. I said I wanted speakers that sound "crystal clear" (I didn't know much at that time…), and he kind of giggled and said that if I want that I should get some PMC speakers that cost many thousands of dollars. That sounded pretty expansive, and I eventually went with a pair of secondhand Yamaha HS8. They're not the most high-end, but in terms of freq response every measurement I've seen marks them as pretty neutral. And best of all, Yamaha are pretty transparent with their specs, citing a -3db point at 47hz, which is more information than PMC gives.

I feel I got lucky not to peruse some industry myth and instead getting something affordable with descent value for money. The Yamahas are serving me fine as the main speakers for everything from watching movies and listening to music, to sound mixing for video. I am pretty pleased with their neutrality, and they make it easy to detect bad mixes on music and Youtube videos. I would like to upgrade them at some point, and my aspiration will be to get speakers (whether active or passive) that are truly tonally neutral and don't have some distinct sound curve that their manufacturer baked in to make them sound "exiting" or "hard to mix on".

And as it seems, PMC will probably not be the way to go.

 

[pozz]

One I made myself - I have a soft spot for big old speakers .. and with a good anechoic target even those old parts can work -quite- well. See the 'quasi-anechoic' and in room measurement (with no correction above 300hz)

Really, really nice work. I imagine the sound must be really smooth all around given the lens dispersion.

 

[TimVG]

Really, really nice work. I imagine the sound must be really smooth all around given the lens dispersion.

They have well controlled directivity in general, but as you'd expect from a horn system it disperses a bit narrower compared to a cone/dome system.
But they sound nice - as the measurements would indicate. Some little bumps and ripples here and there, but not much more can be expected out of 50 year old parts and technology.

 

[Ron Texas]

PMC DB1S-A II detailed measurements. Horrendous mess. And I assume you've already found other measurements from Stereophile that show their bass tuning to be a disaster. PMC is just another one of those antiquated UK cottage-industry brands like Graham, Harbeth, Chartwell, Falcon, Stirling, Spendor and to some extent ATC that produce regressive speakers that (wilfully or otherwise) ignore evidence-based best practices that inform the likes of Genelec. And yet fetishised and romanticised to no end - regarded as equals or even superior to brands that put in the effort to keep up with R&D.

That;s a long list of speaker manufacturers all of which have received glowing reviews from many sources. However, you know better than everyone and manage to read graphs in the most jaundiced way possible thereby concluding the LS50 is poorly designed too. I hope every owner of those brands in this forum finds your post and gives you a piece of their mind for your extremely impolite approach. It would have been far more instructive to point out exactly what deficiencies you see in the graphs for the PMC speakers in question rather than dropping a V2 on merry old England.

 

[TimVG]

That;s a long list of speaker manufacturers all of which have received glowing reviews from many sources. However, you know better than everyone and manage to read graphs in the most jaundiced way possible thereby concluding the LS50 is poorly designed too. I hope every owner of those brands in this forum finds your post and gives you a piece of their mind for your extremely impolite approach. It would have been far more instructive to point out exactly what deficiencies you see in the graphs for the PMC speakers in question rather than dropping a V2 on merry old England.

For the PMC: It's not flat anywhere, it has a big suckout in the bass due to the transmission line system, directivity is all over the place.. And you'll pay a lot of money for it.