"plasticky" Neumanns?

[tuga]

I think you'll find that only works for specific music, where the IMD doesn't get obnoxious. Fun, but hardly a panacea.

Personally, I'd rather have harmonic distortion levels as low as possible.

 

[fpitas]

Personally, I'd rather have harmonic distortion levels as low as possible.

Yes, I agree. Others are welcome to flavor their music as they like. I've talked to some people who use different systems for different music. That's getting too far down a rabbit hole for me!

 

[fpitas]

In this "plasticky" case, I suspect the monitors simply lack the midbass bloom that some people prefer. But who knows.

 

[ahofer]

They could learn a thing or two from Nelson Pass :

When I had a custom batch of SITs made by SemiSouth, the first thing I did was test the performance of the part in the simplest possible circuit, which was just the one transistor in single-ended, class-A, Common Source mode without feedback. The SIT being very much like a triode, it is easy to make a single bias adjustment which affects the second harmonic distortion of the device, ranging from a relatively large amount [of] positive phase second [harmonic] through a null point with no second [harmonic], to large, negative phase second-harmonic distortion.

The result was so interesting that I released it as the SIT-1, with a knob on the front panel and a meter showing the voltage/current operating point of the SIT, so that users could make the adjustments and decide what they liked best. We floated some prototypes around and found that most people preferred a particular setting. There was a consistent subjective observation that there was a difference not only with the level of second harmonic, but phase also. Negative-phase second harmonic tends to expand the perception of front-to-back space in the soundstage, separating instruments a bit. Positive phase does the opposite, putting things subjectively closer and "in your face." I have heard this sort of comment from people who were not in a position to have expectation bias, so I treat it seriously.

Of course, there was also such a thing as too much second harmonic. It is a trick best done in small doses.

Nelson Pass: Circuit Topology and the End of Science Page 2

We have gain devices; basic topologies; values of the many passive components, like resistors, capacitors and inductors; classes of operation (bias points and load lines); and a host of other detailsbut it's more about process. Because I personally do not have anyone dictating the desired...

www.stereophile.com

Can @pkane simulate this?

 

[fpitas]

Can @pkane simulate this?

I think Pass used his H2 generator for his test. I would think that it could be replicated easily in software. He does state that the H2 phase is important.

 

[Sokel]

Most audiophiles have heads full of nonsense and that prejudices their listening experiences

As far as I follow the thread the comment didn't come from audiophiles but by pros,which is weird.

(audiophiles I know may have Neumanns or Gens but mostly some of the main monitors,not the small ones).

 

[fpitas]

As far as I follow the thread the comment didn't come from audiophiles but by pros,which is weird.

(audiophiles I know may have Neumanns or Gens but mostly some of the main monitors,not the small ones).

True, but we don't know what they had been using. To make a vast understatement, not all the monitors that pros use are perfect

 

[Mart68]

As far as I follow the thread the comment didn't come from audiophiles but by pros,which is weird.

(audiophiles I know may have Neumanns or Gens but mostly some of the main monitors,not the small ones).

I've met a few pros who had some weird ideas.

 

[Sokel]

I've met a few pros who had some weird ideas.

May I have back the pros that recorded,mix,mastered,produced my favorite 50's and 60's classical albums please???
I don't care if they have some little flaws too,honestly.


PS: Please???

 

[Mart68]

May I have back the pros that recorded,mix,mastered,produced my favorite 50's and 60's classical albums please???
I don't care if they have some little flaws too,honestly.


PS: Please???

for example I have a friend whose day job is running a £1 million FOH system but he doesn't translate this knowledge to domestic hi-fi at all and is quite open to nonsense.

Just working in pro audio is no guarantee of anything. A lot of the time it's like 'Oddball' in 'Kelly's Heroes' - 'I just ride on them man, I don't know what makes them work.'

 

[Zensō]

It seems obvious to me that Neumanns “sound plasticky” because they look as if they could be made from injection molded plastic (they aren’t). Likewise, Genelec 8000 series monitors are often described as “metallic” and “bright”, likely because they’re made from cast aluminum and have that shiny aluminum tweeter peeking through the grille. Of course, monitors from both brands have nearly ruler-flat responses. Just more examples of expectation bias…

 

[ahofer]

True, but we don't know what they had been using. To make a vast understatement, not all the monitors that pros use are perfect

I went back and re-read parts of Toole's book recently. The studio pros come out pretty erratic.

 

[Mart68]

It seems obvious to me that Neumanns “sound plasticky” because they look as if they could be made from injection molded from plastic (they aren’t). Likewise, Genelec 8000 series monitors are often described as “metallic” and “bright”, likely because they’re made from cast aluminum and have that shiny aluminum tweeter peeking through the grille. Of course, monitors from both brands have nearly ruler-flat responses. Just more examples of expectation bias…

True, it's like the 'Metal tweeters sound metallic' thing. I've got two sets of Audax tweeters here, soft dome and metal dome. Spec is identical for both except the metal domes have slightly higher power handling and cost a bit more.

 

[thecheapseats]

May I have back the pros that recorded,mix,mastered,produced my favorite 50's and 60's classical albums please???
I don't care if they have some little flaws too,honestly.


PS: Please???

they all dead...

 

[Digby]

That is a straw man. Claims don't get dismissed here because they lack evidence, it's mostly because the claims contradict already existing evidence and research.

if they contradict it doesn't, by dint of fact, mean they are immediately wrong. They may be less likely to be right, but not just immediately wrong. Is the science on audio (or anything for that matter) settled?

And when it comes to multiple people having same kind of bad experience with certain speaker: you know that people who think their products behave like they expected are usually not going to be telling about it in forums. But when you get one person complaining about weak bass then everybody who feels the same regardless of whether or not the phenomenon really exists chime in and now you have "A number of people notice a 'character' to a certain speaker".

That is a good point I agree with. There is the 'me too' effect and the quiet, satisfied customer also. This doesn't rule out the possibility of claims having merit though.

 

[notsodeadlizard]

It's not prohibited, for example, to find the impudence to say it out loud:

using expensive professional near-field studio monitors to listen to the background music while sitting on a computer is a real snake oil.

And on the other hand, everything is the same in what to look for satisfaction - in magic cables or in studio monitors.
The main thing is to get the satisfaction

 

[thecheapseats]

...And on the other hand, everything is the same in what to look for satisfaction - in magic cables or in studio monitors.
The main thing is to get the satisfaction...

yep... endorphins come in all flavors...

 

[bodhi]

if they contradict it doesn't, by dint of fact, mean they are immediately wrong. They may be less likely to be right, but not just immediately wrong. Is the science on audio (or anything for that matter) settled?

Come on now. You are not living your life paying attention to all sorts of weird theories about things. You take your car to motorway trusting your life to the hands of people who designed and manufactured your car. You take medicine with a prescribed dose because you trust that it won't kill you. You use all kinds of equipment which might be the end of you if they don't work, and you don't even know how they work under the hood.

But when it comes to hifi equipment suddenly all the research, theoretical and empirical, must not be trusted. No, we need to seriously consider some random subjective babble about things that cannot be explained by science, even though there is far, far more likely explanation: the person is imagining this phenomenon, has set up his stuff wrong or is just straight up lying.

But anyways, there are almost nothing left of this horse after decades of beating. So boring.

 

[Digby]

Come on now. You are not living your life paying attention to all sorts of weird theories about things. You take your car to motorway trusting your life to the hands of people who designed and manufactured your car. You take medicine with a prescribed dose because you trust that it won't kill you. You use all kinds of equipment which might be the end of you if they don't work, and you don't even know how they work under the hood.

Sure, but that doesn't require total comprehension of their workings, either by me or even the designers. There are things that work, but we are not totally sure why.

But when it comes to hifi equipment suddenly all the research, theoretical and empirical, must not be trusted. No, we need to seriously consider some random subjective babble about things that cannot be explained by science, even though there is far, far more likely explanation: the person is imagining this phenomenon, has set up his stuff wrong or is just straight up lying.

But anyways, there are almost nothing left of this horse after decades of beating. So boring.

Ha, you accuse me of a strawman, then you erect a great big wickerman in its place. I forgot, it is pointless to use nuance on the internet. I'm sorry for trying.

I have to ask, is English your first language?

 

[fpitas]

Come on now. You are not living your life paying attention to all sorts of weird theories about things. You take your car to motorway trusting your life to the hands of people who designed and manufactured your car. You take medicine with a prescribed dose because you trust that it won't kill you. You use all kinds of equipment which might be the end of you if they don't work, and you don't even know how they work under the hood.

But when it comes to hifi equipment suddenly all the research, theoretical and empirical, must not be trusted. No, we need to seriously consider some random subjective babble about things that cannot be explained by science, even though there is far, far more likely explanation: the person is imagining this phenomenon, has set up his stuff wrong or is just straight up lying.

But anyways, there are almost nothing left of this horse after decades of beating. So boring.

Not true. One day our trolls will show us the X-Factor, to our lasting shame.