PC Motherboard ROG SupremeFX7.1 (DAC ESS® ES9023P) versus Audioengine HD6 (AKM AK4396A DAC)

[Mark with a K]

I just bought a new PC with a ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero motherboard that includes soundcard: ROG Supreme FX7.1 Surround Sound High Definition Audio CODEC with DAC ESS® ES9023P. And supports up to 32-Bit/192kHz playback.

Now I also have the Audioengine HD6 spreakers that include a AKM AK4396A DAC. These support only 24-Bit/192kHz playback.

Should I 'technically' get better audio quality if I connect the speakers with the motherboard DAC (ESS ES9023P), or connect to the Audioengine HD6 speakers DAC (AKM AK4396A) using the Toslink optical connection?

Tech specs links:
https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-crosshair/rog-crosshair-viii-dark-hero-model/spec/

https://audioengineusa.com/product_tech_specs/hd6-wireless-speakers/

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[_thelaughingman]

Age old question of weather one dac sounds better than the other due to better specs. IMO the specifications are of little import, what matters is the source material being played. If you are using it for gaming most games are playing in 16bit 44khz so it wouldn't matter which DAC you use. Now as far as connectivity goes you can play around with both DAC's and see which you prefer for your sound.

 

[Doodski]

Whether you can hear a difference between the DACs on the Audioengine HD6 speakers is another question. The differences in the DACs will be so tiny that the speakers will need to be much much more capable. The DACs are a solved issue now and they have been for decades. The differences between the DACs is mostly beyond anybody's hearing ability and when buying a new quality DAC shopping for the best specs is good but keep in mind that beyond the limits of your hearing the specs after that are basically bragging rights and peace of mind.

 

[Mark with a K]

For gaming I understand the limitations in bit rate.

Should 'in theory' the above specified 32bit DAC not be better than the 24bit DAC for high quality audio?

 

[Doodski]

For gaming I understand the limitations in bit rate.

Should 'in theory' the above specified 32bit DAC not be better than the 24bit DAC for high quality audio?

In theory bigger should be better although this is way beyond your hearing sensitivity. I use 24bit 48k on my ASUS motherboard and I have the 32 bit 192k settings but it's not required.

 

[Doodski]

and... I tested the 16bit, 24bit and 32bit settings and I could not hear any difference when using $300.00 Sennheiser headphones.

 

[Doodski]

If you have a ground loop and some buzz/fuzz sound in your speakers then the toslink would be very handy to eliminate the ground noise.

 

[bennetng]

For gaming I understand the limitations in bit rate.

Should 'in theory' the above specified 32bit DAC not be better than the 24bit DAC for high quality audio?

Even Audio Precision's analog loopback can't achieve full 24-bit quality so this bit-depth (not bit-rate) talk is meaningless anyway. Toslink can be useful to avoid ground loop, so could be useful in some cases.

 

[EdW]

In all probability the DAC chip used won’t matter if it’s a recent one. What matters is the quality of the implementation of the complete DAC circuit. So one manufacturer’s use of a particular DAC chip may give significantly superior measured results to another manufacturer’s implementation using the same chip. It’s a skill and experience thing.
Sound cards on PCs are in close proximity to very large scale digital circuits operating at high clock rates and kicking out a lot of digital noise, radiated or via power rails. So an in computer sound system faces particular challenges.

 

[Mark with a K]

If you have a ground loop and some buzz/fuzz sound in your speakers then the toslink would be very handy to eliminate the ground noise.

Thanks, so to conclude: considering the above audio quality difference between a 32bit DAC and 24bit DAC is beyond human hearing sensitivity. Connecting via toslink to the Audioengine HD6 DAC will probably lead to the best audio quality!

 

[ThatM1key]

I know mb audio has gotten better over the years but I don't trust it during hard core gaming. When your gpu is under stress, it can cause noise on your rca output.

 

[Doodski]

Thanks, so to conclude: considering the above audio quality difference between a 32bit DAC and 24bit DAC is beyond human hearing sensitivity. Connecting via toslink to the Audioengine HD6 DAC will probably lead to the best audio quality!

ahhh not so quick. On my ASUS motherboard in the Sonic Studio where the EQ is there is a section that indicates the toslink and SPDIF outputs can be controlled with the EQ. I have not tried that to test it but that's worthy of a look see. It's always better to have a EQ for adjustments.

 

[Mark with a K]

ahhh not so quick. On my ASUS motherboard in the Sonic Studio where the EQ is there is a section that indicates the toslink and SPDIF outputs can be controlled with the EQ. I have not tried that to test it but that's worthy of a look see. It's always better to have a EQ for adjustments.
View attachment 109178

Via Toslink it is possible to use the EQ for adjustments you say. So a Toslink (optical) connection using the Audioengine DAC should probably be the best option right?

 

[Doodski]

I would go with whatever output you can use the EQ on because that will give you the best sound. IF you have a ground loop then use the toslink.

 

[Doodski]

I know mb audio has gotten better over the years but I don't trust it during hard core gaming. When your gpu is under stress, it can cause noise on your rca output.

The new ASUS ROG motherboards have shielded circuitry and shielded PCB traces all the way to the audio output jack. MY ASUS ROG motherboard is dead silent even at full 100% volume.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Should 'in theory' the above specified 32bit DAC not be better than the 24bit DAC for high quality audio?

Bit depth as far as audio files are concerned is either 16 or 24.
16 bit allows for -96 dBFS (96 dB dynamic range) and 24 bit goes down to -144 dBFS
This is in excess of what any recording chain (or playback) can obtain.
In practice 20 bit of musical information is about the max in a recording, the rest is random noise.

However, 32 bit DAC has nothing to do with dynamic range like 16/24.
Modern DAC's are small processors, they can do all kind of thinks like programmable filter banks, async sample rate conversion, volume control, etc.
To keep the quantization noise down, often 32 bit float is used (24 bit mantissa with a 8 bit exponent)
For a long time we had 32 bit DAC with a 24 bit data path (the max allowed by SPDIF)
Today often the data path to the DAC is 32 bit as well (USB)

Normally all DSP done at the PC is done in float and at the end converted back to integer (24 bit).
Today probably the 32 bit data path is used to send float to the DAC avoiding any quantization error.

As stated before, you need a very quiet playback chain.
If you want to reproduce bit 20, you need e.q. power amp with a dynamic range of 120 dB.
Very few will be able to do this.

 

[Mark with a K]

Bit depth as far as audio files are concerned is either 16 or 24.
16 bit allows for -96 dBFS (96 dB dynamic range) and 24 bit goes down to -144 dBFS
This is in excess of what any recording chain (or playback) can obtain.
In practice 20 bit of musical information is about the max in a recording, the rest is random noise.

However, 32 bit DAC has nothing to do with dynamic range like 16/24.
Modern DAC's are small processors, they can do all kind of thinks like programmable filter banks, async sample rate conversion, volume control, etc.
To keep the quantization noise down, often 32 bit float is used (24 bit mantissa with a 8 bit exponent)
For a long time we had 32 bit DAC with a 24 bit data path (the max allowed by SPDIF)
Today often the data path to the DAC is 32 bit as well (USB)

Normally all DSP done at the PC is done in float and at the end converted back to integer (24 bit).
Today probably the 32 bit data path is used to send float to the DAC avoiding any quantization error.

As stated before, you need a very quiet playback chain.
If you want to reproduce bit 20, you need e.q. power amp with a dynamic range of 120 dB.
Very few will be able to do this.

So what whould you recommend in theory taking the above in consideration: should I 'technically' get better audio quality if I connect the speakers with the motherboard DAC (ESS ES9023P), or connect to the Audioengine HD6 speakers DAC (AKM AK4396A) using the Toslink optical connection?

FYI - I don't have my new PC delivered yet, due to the current supply chain issues in consumer electronics (so I can not test the difference in audio quality yet)

 

[Vincent Kars]

Impossible to answer.
The mobo not only has a DAC but also an analog stage.
What is the quality of this stage?
Toslink is great as it offers perfect galvanic isolation but is often a bit down in the jitter department.
Etc
Etc
There are many more components involved than the DAC and their data path, you can’t reduce this to a simple 24 or 32 question.

 

[Mark with a K]

Impossible to answer.
The mobo not only has a DAC but also an analog stage.
What is the quality of this stage?
Toslink is great as it offers perfect galvanic isolation but is often a bit down in the jitter department.
Etc
Etc
There are many more components involved than the DAC and their data path, you can’t reduce this to a simple 24 or 32 question.

Q: What is the quality of this stage?
A: This is only what I can find in the tech specs on the ASUS website of the audio from the motherboard:

ROG SupremeFX7.1 Surround Sound High Definition Audio CODEC
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking, up to 24-Bit/192kHz playback
- Dedicated audio PCB layers
- Unique de-pop circuit
- Audio Cover
- Premium Japanese audio capacitors
- Power pre-regulator: Reduces power input noise to ensure consistent performance
- Impedance sense for front and rear headphone outputs
- High quality120dBSNR stereo playback outputand113dBSNR recording input
- ESS® ES9023P
- Supports up to 32-Bit/192kHz playback
Audio Feature :
- SupremeFX Shielding™ Technology
- Gold-plated jacks
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
* Due to limitations in HDA bandwidth, 32-Bit/192kHz is not supported for 8-Channel audio.

 

[bennetng]

Toslink jitter is nothing more than red herring, if the jitter is high enough you get drop out and clicks. Yes, if you measure it in a clean environment like what Amir did in his reviews, Toslink is often inferior when the DAC chip itself or the DAC PCB does not have additional reclocking circuitry, but the reality is that jitter is correlated to signal strength but ground loop is not. Things like -100dB spikes in J-Tests look distracting but you are not listening to a 1/4 sample rate high amplitude tone, you listen to sounds with full spectrum, so all these jitter components fall into the noise floor and masked by psychoacoustics anyway.

Ground loop on the other hand is not correlated to the signal, when the signal is weak, it becomes audible. It has nothing to do with product specs, it depends on how you chain different pieces of audio equipment together, so product specs mean nothing.