• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Paradigm persona 9H

Staffan

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
9
Likes
3
You room will affect the frequency response and it will not match the magazine published graphe. In stereophile sometimes they include speaker FR and in room FR and they always differ and the HF always get some roll-off behavior. For example check this measurement in stereophile, the speaker has more energy in 10Khz but in room measurement is flat. Moreover the off axis also will affect that and each speaker will behaves different.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/vimberg-mino-loudspeaker-measurements


Yes thats true, here example my 805d3, its also have 10khz boost, but the room makes it smoother.

805d3 L+R[2792].jpg
 

cbrents73

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
69
Likes
67
Location
Kansas City MO

ehabheikal

Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
442
Likes
161
Interesting...I heard these at my local Paradigm dealer and I was blown away. But....I feel like everything sounds better at the dealer, and I have no clue what they were using to drive them. For sure they will need some muscle behind them with that impedance.

Dealers treat their rooms like crazy, even if you do not see it. Things will always sound better at a dealer. And never trust the pics of TVs at the dealer, they will adjust to make the most expensive look better.
 

cbrents73

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
69
Likes
67
Location
Kansas City MO
Having been a Dealer, I completely disagree with a store sounding better, unless the store is at someone’s house. Even with a ridiculous amount of treatment, commercial spaces are at an inherent disadvantage.

There’s so much noise not accounted for from; auto traffic outside, floor traffic of people inside with salespeople talking or other rooms playing/demoing, electrical noise from Lights/AC/Furnace, rattles in the ceiling because it’s all metal suspension, there’s just so much more noise in commercial spaces than what people realize and many dealers don’t take soundproofing to the most extreme level due to their own costs, especially if they don’t own the building and in most cases even if they do.

In many commercial spaces you’re at the mercy of codes which involve metal studs and framing like how my old store was. We double Sheetrocked the rooms, not the ceilings, but that was about as far as we could take it in our space short of adding some Room Tune treatment. But we always tried to make it feel more like home than a store so we never went crazy with that stuff and tried to use more furniture, rugs, and artsy stuff to dampen the sound.

The average listener doesn’t have their main room set up like a recording studio and that’s probably why things worked out so well for us. Many dealers overdo it in that realm - who wants to live that way, my wife sure doesn’t and I’m in the industry...I always told customers, if you love what you heard and saw in the store, then you’ll be super in love after you get it home. We let people take products home to try out - it was the easiest lay down sale in the world. No one ever came back saying it sounded better in our store and in fact, it generally pushed people toward a better thing than what they took. Although now, more people are dealing with hard surfaces due to home trends with tile, glass, hardwood everywhere with less carpet.
Fortunately our Anthem Genesis Room Correction Software is helping combat those types of homes and could see a change in how many speaker designers are voicing their speakers because of these trends. That’s my opinion anyway...

In closing, all of our speakers are 8ohm and predominantly efficient with high sensitivity, so no tough loads to push, but bigger and better performing amps will just not have to work as hard as smaller ones to drive them at much louder levels. Thanks for the note!
Cheers,
Chris
 

Tom C

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
1,512
Likes
1,385
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Having been a Dealer, I completely disagree with a store sounding better, unless the store is at someone’s house. Even with a ridiculous amount of treatment, commercial spaces are at an inherent disadvantage.

There’s so much noise not accounted for from; auto traffic outside, floor traffic of people inside with salespeople talking or other rooms playing/demoing, electrical noise from Lights/AC/Furnace, rattles in the ceiling because it’s all metal suspension, there’s just so much more noise in commercial spaces than what people realize and many dealers don’t take soundproofing to the most extreme level due to their own costs, especially if they don’t own the building and in most cases even if they do.

In many commercial spaces you’re at the mercy of codes which involve metal studs and framing like how my old store was. We double Sheetrocked the rooms, not the ceilings, but that was about as far as we could take it in our space short of adding some Room Tune treatment. But we always tried to make it feel more like home than a store so we never went crazy with that stuff and tried to use more furniture, rugs, and artsy stuff to dampen the sound.

The average listener doesn’t have their main room set up like a recording studio and that’s probably why things worked out so well for us. Many dealers overdo it in that realm - who wants to live that way, my wife sure doesn’t and I’m in the industry...I always told customers, if you love what you heard and saw in the store, then you’ll be super in love after you get it home. We let people take products home to try out - it was the easiest lay down sale in the world. No one ever came back saying it sounded better in our store and in fact, it generally pushed people toward a better thing than what they took. Although now, more people are dealing with hard surfaces due to home trends with tile, glass, hardwood everywhere with less carpet.
Fortunately our Anthem Genesis Room Correction Software is helping combat those types of homes and could see a change in how many speaker designers are voicing their speakers because of these trends. That’s my opinion anyway...

In closing, all of our speakers are 8ohm and predominantly efficient with high sensitivity, so no tough loads to push, but bigger and better performing amps will just not have to work as hard as smaller ones to drive them at much louder levels. Thanks for the note!
Cheers,
Chris
Hello @cbrents73, and welcome to ASR. I read your profile and see you work for Paradigm. Amir will give you a manufacturer’s badge to go under your avatar if you let him know.
Your post caught my eye because you’re in Kansas City. I was at KU in KC, KS, met my wife there, and now live in Joplin, so we’re nearly neighbors.
I love my Paradigm Personas for how they sound, and my wife loves them for how they look. Thanks for your hard work!

Tom C.
 

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,334
Likes
12,296
What does "organic" mean? Genuine question. "Airy" to me means boosted treble, but I'm not sure about "organic".

Hi richard12511,

If if helps at all, I can try to explain what "organic" means to me as a description, given that is one of the main qualities I look for in a system.

What I mean by "organic" is that unamplified acoustic sounds like voices, sax, guitar, cello etc have more of the sound of the real thing, that is the sonic signature, the timbre, of materials they are made of, rather than sounding like an electronic alternative.

So take the human voice - it has a wet, damped, resonant quality - it's organic - we know the sound of human flesh/vocal cords, chest resonating in real voices. In contrast, a really bad sound system - take a bad P.A. system in the subway - can reproduce enough so that we can understand what a speaker is saying, and enough characteristics to recognize it was a person speaking through the system, but it is an artificial version of a voice - distorted, sharpened, tinny and ringing with a metallic signature rather than flesh etc. That's the exaggerated version, but I find similar analogs even when I listen to various hi-fi systems. The worst veer towards the artificial tone of the subway PA system, but even ostensibly better ones leave human voices sounding to me like disembodied electronic versions of voice - say a combinatino of sibilance that is sharper and harder, like you'd get pinging metal, than any human produces, a less coherent voice where it feels like I can hear the parts of the voice put together by the drivers, a voice that sounds hollow and lacking the density and resonance of a real flesh-and-blood voice coming from a throat and chest. Even with a really naturally recorded vocal track when I close my eyes most sound systems depart from the organic signature of the real thing to sound very artificial.

But sometimes I hear qualities that DO come closer to the characteristics of organic sound sources, more believably flesh-and-blood vocalists for instance appearing between the speaker. And that all goes for things like the woody resonance of a cello sounding woody (organic) and not some abstract flubby bass quality, the sound of the reed vibrating in a sax, even the metallic ring of a trumpet sounding like the metal of a trumpet, rather than a course digital sample.

So that's generally what I think of as "organic sound" from a hi-fi system vs "artificial."

(And the thing is, in a practical sense, it remains fairly subjective. Given the compromises in sound reproduction, very little will sound truly accurate to the real thing, so it's a pick-and-choose which aspects you care about most scenario).
 

cbrents73

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
69
Likes
67
Location
Kansas City MO
Hello @cbrents73, and welcome to ASR. I read your profile and see you work for Paradigm. Amir will give you a manufacturer’s badge to go under your avatar if you let him know.
Your post caught my eye because you’re in Kansas City. I was at KU in KC, KS, met my wife there, and now live in Joplin, so we’re nearly neighbors.
I love my Paradigm Personas for how they sound, and my wife loves them for how they look. Thanks for your hard work!

Tom C.

Oh wow...Thank you for warm welcome, the info, and you being one of our great customers Tom. Yes, definitely good neighbors.

Cheers,
Chris
 

Impossible

Active Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
149
Likes
51
So have gone with the persona 9h.
Im thinking a nord nc502 amplifier 500w to power them and persona Centre.
Do you think it would be suitable?
 

Alexanderc

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
641
Likes
1,018
Location
Florida, USA
So have gone with the persona 9h.
Im thinking a nord nc502 amplifier 500w to power them and persona Centre.
Do you think it would be suitable?
That setup might be on my shortlist if I had the budget and the space for it.
 

Impossible

Active Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
149
Likes
51
So on the spec sheet for the 9h it says
"SUITABLE AMPLIFIER POWER Range 15 - 500 Watts
MAXIMUM INPUT POWER400 Watts"

So does this mean I shouldnt go over 400 Watts or 500?
 

SimpleTheater

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
929
Likes
1,814
Location
Woodstock, NY
So on the spec sheet for the 9h it says
"SUITABLE AMPLIFIER POWER Range 15 - 500 Watts
MAXIMUM INPUT POWER400 Watts"

So does this mean I shouldnt go over 400 Watts or 500?
Wattage doesn’t destroy speakers, clipping does. Go with the high powered amp.
From the link “We occasionally hear of loudspeaker owners who damage the high frequency components of their loudspeaker systems using amplifiers that are rated at less – rather than more – power output than recommended.”
https://pro.harman.com/insights/har...of-using-power-amplifiers-that-are-too-small/
 

Impossible

Active Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
149
Likes
51
Wattage doesn’t destroy speakers, clipping does. Go with the high powered amp.
From the link “We occasionally hear of loudspeaker owners who damage the high frequency components of their loudspeaker systems using amplifiers that are rated at less – rather than more – power output than recommended.”
https://pro.harman.com/insights/har...of-using-power-amplifiers-that-are-too-small/
Thanks for this, it was very helpful.

Yesterday I demo'ed the persona 5f's again before I purchased the 9h.

They used an Anthem str amp rated at 400w at 8ohm (one of the new ones) . But when running loud (what felt like a little below thx ref level) there was clear clipping. So I pointed it out and at first they said they didn't hear any, probably because they sat behind me on their phones. So I played it back and we all agreed there was quite a bit of clipping. Note to add is that the lights were dimming in the room every now and again so it could be that the amp wasn't getting fed enough power from the mains.
 

steve59

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
1,023
Likes
736
I think the 9h is the 7f with 2 more low bass drivers with their own amps and ARC room correction. The 7f was playing at +100 db levels with a pathos integrated that is a tube pre and an ab power amp 100 wpc and the power bars were only reaching 30 watts. I would think the 9h will be at least as efficient. Just sayin' I also heard the anthem ARC separates that are 400 wpc and I still preferred the pathos sound. The little lumin sounded good but it sounds like you don't need a budget component regardless of how good it sounds.
 
Last edited:

Impossible

Active Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
149
Likes
51
I'm thinking because the 9h only requires the mids and high frequency powered. I should be fine with no more then 350w.

The centre biamped with 2 x 350w min.
Based on the article above.
 

Impossible

Active Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
149
Likes
51
So iv gone with nord accustics Hypex NCore NC502MP.
4-6 x 350Wrms 8 Ohms
4-6 x 500Wrms 4 Ohms
4-6 x 450Wrms 2 Ohms
 
Top Bottom