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Our phone company has a sense of humor....

Blumlein 88

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I pay $80/mo for Verizon FiOS 1Gbps. Admittedly I'm in the suburbs of a big metro. Because I occasionally work from home, it gets expensed anyway.

Without getting too political, where this discussion usually breaks down between EU / US is realizing that in the US there's 'my internet is bad because I am poor' and 'my internet is bad because I am rural.' Hard lines suffer from the tyranny of distance; generally Euros misunderstand the sheer size scale of this country and the quantity of people who live in low population density areas. For both poor and rural there is tons of money and dozens of programs to get better cheaper internet access, but they are also not necessarily easy to use.
Good points. Average population density of the EU is 117 people per square km. In the USA it is 36. And the variance between regions is much greater in the USA. The Great Plains which includes an area about half the size of the EU has a population density of only 5 people per square km.
 

Berwhale

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I pay $80/mo for Verizon FiOS 1Gbps. Admittedly I'm in the suburbs of a big metro. Because I occasionally work from home, it gets expensed anyway.

Without getting too political, where this discussion usually breaks down between EU / US is realizing that in the US there's 'my internet is bad because I am poor' and 'my internet is bad because I am rural.' Hard lines suffer from the tyranny of distance; generally Euros misunderstand the sheer size scale of this country and the quantity of people who live in low population density areas. For both poor and rural there is tons of money and dozens of programs to get better cheaper internet access, but they are also not necessarily easy to use.

It's the same for business. I live and work in the UK, for a US company, that operates in over 50 countries. There is a massive disparity between countries and regions in terms of capacity, resilience and price for point to point or internet connectivity. I've seen 'global' connectivity strategies defined based on NA norms which really make little sense for LATAM, EMEA or ASPAC where the infrastructure and business environment is completely different.
 

Chrispy

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Why are you folk across the pond paying so much for your broadband/fibre?, here in very rural Scotland I pay £17.99 /$22 a month for 70mbps unlimited use.
Subsidies involved? Density of population? I can't even get fiber directly. I pay Spectrum $80/month for what is at best 100-120 Mbps. We're too far off the beaten path (why we only had dsl initially). The local government did bring a fiber line in several years back, but didn't allow service providers to access it for a long while, then after they did another service ran their own as well....but no fiber lines to individual homes that I'm aware of....might have to ask, tho.
 

sarumbear

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Oh dear. I feel bad about posting about our service I pay around $30 for. :)
1670716070235.png


Screenshot 2021-08-29 231153.jpg

Above is measured on Wi-Fi on an iPhone...

Fibre comes inside the home at 10Gbps and converted to cobber at 1Gbps at a wall box. This allows future speed upgrade by just changing the box.
 
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JaMaSt

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Why are you folk across the pond paying so much for your broadband/fibre?, here in very rural Scotland I pay £17.99 /$22 a month for 70mbps unlimited use.
The State of Oregon is the same size as Great Britain, but has 1/17 the population.
 

sarumbear

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The State of Oregon is the same size as Great Britain, but has 1/17 the population.
Scotland is not much different to Oregon.
 

sarumbear

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About 3 times more densely populated than Oregon.
But not 17 times though is it? Scotland's population density is twice of USA: 36 vs 70 people per Km^2. Oregon is indeed pretty sparse but remove the two Scottish cities, which are all near the border and the density is not much different to Oregon.
 

Blumlein 88

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Scotland is not much different to Oregon.
Scottland's population density is 67/square km vs 15 for Oregon. It is even more warped. Take away the coastal area and the rest of the state is very low population. Nearly 80% of it by area is less than 5/square kilometer with half being less than 1. 53% by area is owned by the federal government. No one can live there. Scottland's lowest densities according to wikipedia are the Scottish Highlands and some islands at 9 per square km.
 
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JaMaSt

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But not 17 times though is it? Scotland's population density is twice of USA: 36 vs 70 people per Km^2. Oregon is indeed pretty sparse but remove the two Scottish cities, which are all near the border and density is not much different to Oregon.
The infrastructure in many western states is spread out over an enormous area, relative to the number of people that actually subscribe to the services. Scotland is 1/3 the land size Oregon with 1,000,000 more people.
 

sarumbear

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The infrastructure in many western states is spread out over an enormous area, relative to the number of people that actually subscribe to the services. Scotland is 1/3 the land size Oregon with 1,000,000 more people.
As long as you accept those excuses there is not much hope for an improvement.

USA built a rail network between the oceans. They didn't say: wow, this land is much bigger than Britain, we can't possibly do what they have done there. They just got on with it. Nor the vast land size stopped Amazon in creating their Prime service, which I believe delivers any part of USA.

Excuses stifle development.
 
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Blumlein 88

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As long as you accept those excuses there is not much hope for an improvement.

USA built a rail network between the oceans. They didn't say: wow, this land is much bigger than Britain, we can't possibly do what they have done there. They just got on with it. Nor the vast land size stopped Amazon in creating their Prime service, which I believe delivers any part of USA.

Excuses stifle development.
I agree with you. However, the Transcontinental railroad was done by private companies with surrepticious funding of government bonds. Even then it would not have provided a profit, but railroads formed a supposedly separate construction firm which profited greatly in the construction. As odd as it seemed the financial benefits of that railroad didn't payoff for a long time. The railroad construction firm made off like bandits literally.

Now internet providers want to make great profits and in most areas have a monopoly on service. So where it is not possible to make big profits they don't provide service. It would be very doable, and probably at least as beneficial as the railroad if the government made this an essential utility like electricity and funded the build out. The private companies have too many elected government people in their back pocket and aren't about to let that happen. They literally have laws that have forced cities and counties that were going to provide fiber as a utility to shut down or not provide that service.
 

JSmith

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Yeh, the state of DSL offering is really sad. My son bought a new house a few weeks ago in rather remote area. I warned him to call in advance to make sure there is high speed Internet. They did and Comcast told them they definitely offer it. They buy the house, call to get service, only to be told Comcast does NOT offer cable service there at all! They go to the phone company and get a crappy 6 mbit/sec service for $60/month. To augment that they, are using T-mobile wireless.
Is Starlink an option there? I think it's northern US states at the moment, but they are expanding that over 2023. $110 per month, but a $599 one off setup fee for the hardware and install. Quite a few people in remote areas of Aus are signing up for this and reporting excellent speeds with minimal dropouts;
Also mobile data reception can be greatly improved for internet with a 4G/5G antenna in remote areas in some cases, depending on distance to transmitters and geographical features etc.


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amirm

amirm

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Is Starlink an option there?
It is but there is a long waiting time. He is on the list waiting for approval which should be sometime next year. They do have an "RV" service now which has quick lead time but is more expensive.

As an aside, and rather exciting, Starlink has petitioned the FCC to add cellular service to their V2 launch birds!!! You will be able to get 3 to 4 mbit/sec on T-mobile for example. Will be great to have anywhere service with that kind of rate.
 

JaMaSt

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Prana Ferox

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Scotland is not much different to Oregon.
Compare tax bills

On the other hand, the English have TV shows making fun of the Scots, and the Americans have shows making fun of Oregon.

(In reality Oregon is an especially difficult place to put infrastructure in as, to oversimplify, most of the land not already developed is some sort of nature preserve you can't touch, a situation the inhabitants have chosen and seem to prefer. Lack of fiber internet isn't exactly holding it back.)
 

Steven Holt

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Why are you folk across the pond paying so much for your broadband/fibre?
There are two reasons. First, it's treated like an unregulated utility, prices are not subject to gov't oversight. Second, lack of competition which enables the supplier to behave like a regional monopoly. The more jaded give a third reason : greed.
 

DavidMcRoy

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Compare tax bills

On the other hand, the English have TV shows making fun of the Scots, and the Americans have shows making fun of Oregon.

(In reality Oregon is an especially difficult place to put infrastructure in as, to oversimplify, most of the land not already developed is some sort of nature preserve you can't touch, a situation the inhabitants have chosen and seem to prefer. Lack of fiber internet isn't exactly holding it back.)

We're south Florida transplants, living in Vancouver, Washington which is part of metro Portland, Oregon. After 5 years here, I can report that it's EXACTLY as it's portrayed in the sitcom 'Portlandia.'
A02FABDE-124F-43AD-BA87-5E2C757F286B.jpeg
F4EE26DD-7203-486B-AAFB-6EE44FE6E64A.jpeg
 

EJ3

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We pay $250 a month for Internet+TV+Voice service! And it is going up to $280 soon. :(
My mother on James Island, SC (across the street from the much higher taxes City of Charleston) pays $270 for about the same thing. I unfortunately live in the City of Charleston and must say that the Public Service District that services my mother's home (trash pickup, recycling, etc does a better job for less money than the City of Chas does for me
 
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