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Opinions on Focal 1000Be In-Wall Published Measurements
- Thread starter ngiac
- Start date
Agree. I own a pair of Salon2 for music playing and after trying a few I settled on KEF Reference in-walls for the home theatre. Expensive but still half the price of the wrongly designed Utopias.
cAs @sarumbear noted, midrange-tweeter-midrange. But really it is more usually woofer-tweeter-woofer. This symmetric layout makes the vertical high frequency beaming symmetrical which *may* be an advantage sometimes. The problem is yes they beam, so turned on their side like so many center channels only the center seat gets the good sound. Hence a 3-way (either with a little midrange below the tweeter, or a coaxial midrange/tweeter like KEF or ELAC) works much better for center channel across multiple listening positions.
Why then are so many centers woofer-tweeter-woofer? Let me tell you as a loudspeaker engineer often the product spec is thrown over the wall from sales/marketing. The manufacturers build what will SELL, which also means what will FIT in furniture (and audio furniture is like 30 years behind the times, just like desks), and at a PRICE people will pay.
This is an interesting thread. I’d like to ask some clarifying questions as I too was considering the Focal 1000 IWLCR6 or the JBL Synthesis SCL-6. I plan to use them in the vertical orientation behind an AT screen. Based on this discussion is the JBL Synthesis SCL-2 a better design for some reason?
Seems like this MTM design is popular and also used on the Synthesis too. Am I missing something about how this is a bad design in the vertical orientation? Or is the JBL something different? I’m also lost that is the Focal IWLCR6 ok because on of the woofers is passive?
Thanks for clarifying. Again, I’m looking to use matching speakers behind AT screen in a vertical orientation.
Thank you
Seems like this MTM design is popular and also used on the Synthesis too. Am I missing something about how this is a bad design in the vertical orientation? Or is the JBL something different? I’m also lost that is the Focal IWLCR6 ok because on of the woofers is passive?
Thanks for clarifying. Again, I’m looking to use matching speakers behind AT screen in a vertical orientation.
Thank you
nerdoldnerdith
Senior Member
The Focal IWLCR6 is not a MTM design. Only one woofer is active as you noted. The passive radiator only plays at a limited bandwidth and don't affect the crossover to the midrange.
MTM designs can be advantageous for in-wall speakers because they limit vertical dispersion, which reduces the rate of decay as one moves out of the sweet spot. This is useful for home theaters where you want better coverage for all seats in the room. Even better than MTM's for this application are line sources like those from Wisdom Audio or Perlisten's S7t design.
I too am interested in this topic and found this video very educational.
I'm pretty sure the limitations of MTM design only apply when used in a horizontal fashion. Having two woofers far apart won't matter in the horizontal listening domain only the vertical, (assuming the speaker is placed vertically) but listeners will all be at roughly nthe same height so it won't matter in the same way. If placed vertically the MTM problems won't be there. Also, if sitting on axis MTM makes no difference. Also, some MTM designs will still outperform coaxial or W(M/T)W designs due to better drivers, materials, etc. But, yeah I agree a non MTM center channel will potentially have better dispersion assuming all else is equal.Why would you need a narrow speaker then?
This the speaker. There are two drivers on top and bottom of the tweeter. Hence the MTM definition. To be pedantic it is WWMTMWW.
We have the full Focal Utopia theater installed in our store, including a pair of the Utopias in the on wall enclosures.
I would love to send Amir one of them (1000 IWLCR6 and/or the Utopia IWLCR) if you'd like, and he'd be willing to test them.
I would love to send Amir one of them (1000 IWLCR6 and/or the Utopia IWLCR) if you'd like, and he'd be willing to test them.
That would be amazing! I’m so curious to see how it stacks up to the SCL-6 Erin reviewed. It’s hard to find measurements and intelligent comparisons online and on YouTube.
- Thread Starter
- #31
@Simply Stereo Me as well...given the amount of $$$ on the line here I'd be happy to help pitch in for shipping a iwlcr6 to Amir if we can make that happen and Amir agrees!
Thanks for sharing this!!! Mind blown!
Peking Man
Member
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The original Electra 1000 series looks aesthetically more pleasing to me than the current 1000 series. The aluminum plate is also rotatable for horizontal configurations. There is no angling of the MT assembly that the IWLCR6 has. Also of note is that the IW1003BE uses a 1-1/4" BE tweeter and 6.5" passive radiator whilst the 'new' 1000 series and Utopia in walls all use 1" tweeters and larger 7" passive radiators.
Are there any tests on the original 1000 series Electra Beryllium in/on walls?
Are there any tests on the original 1000 series Electra Beryllium in/on walls?
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Does anyone have any ideas on how well the Focal 1000 line would work to provide surround with the Kef Reference Meta line for LCR in a 7.4 setup? I like Kef's form factor and center channel designs more than Focal, but the in-ceiling and in-wall options from Focal provide options like the angled ceiling speakers and closed backs that Kef doesn't offer.
We have Refrence 3 Meta's that just shipped to us this morning. I see that you're in the Chicago area -- so if you'd like to, we can set up this exact system here at the store for you to hear. We have the full 15 channel Utopia theater with Utopia L / C / R, and 1000 series surrounds / heights. I'm curious as well how they will work together, as we are planning on doing a Reference Meta front stage with the 1000 series surrounds on a separate processor in the same theater.
We have installed the old Electra in walls in the past. The new ones DO also have a rotatable tweeter / mid assembly by the way.
As far as sound -- the old Electras were the last of the "old focal" sound. They are very forward sounding and the tweeter is quite hot. Audio memory is horrendous, but from what we have experienced, the new 1000 series stuff is much better balanced. Personal opinion, but I find the new ones to be far better looking too. Maybe you'd like them more if you saw them in person.
That would be fantastic. It will be a few weeks before I can make it up to your shop, but will definitely do so.
Peking Man
Member
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thanks for the info. I don't like the look of the new revised line and prefer the classic, more upscale appearance with the machined aluminum plate. Yes I am aware that the new 1000 series has a rotatable tweeter and mid assembly and it allows angling of up to 15 degrees as well I believe. So it's definitely an evolution of the Electra 1000 series on/in-walls.
New stuff looks too "plasticky" to me hence my search for older Focal range. Never liked the ash tray can looking Sopras or the budget looking Kantas. The cabinet designs are all to appease the Chinese market these days I feel. I know you are a dealer so naturally you want to push the new stuff and what's available for purchase
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This is very presumptuous and inaccurate. We do not just push stuff that's available, or things we "want to sell." Have you seen them both in person? We have. Maybe don't immediately lump every dealer into the same category and be a little more open minded. We are FAR from a traditional "dealer."New stuff looks too "plasticky" to me hence my search for older Focal range. Never liked the ash tray can looking Sopras or the budget looking Kantas. The cabinet designs are all to appease the Chinese market these days I feel. I know you are a dealer so naturally you want to push the new stuff and what's available for purchase
You asked about the sound differences between the two, and I answered. They sound like your Electras. Did you buy your Electras based off measurements? I'm guessing not. If you like the sound of them, and like the look of the matching in walls, your search is over.
Also, the Sopras sell like crazy in the US, so I'm not sure where this "chinese market" stuff comes from. Wink elsewhere.
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