OneMic recordings, hear what the band heard in the studio!

[Blumlein 88]

All well and good for what Sound Liason said. I prefer the sound of those myself.

OTOH, I've done it with a stereo pair, a stereo pair with some hall mics (total of 4), multi-miking each member of a small group in the same room, baffling around some members, and separating everyone (even though playing together and hearing each other over headphones). When you are working for other people you do what they prefer. Most have generally preferred everyone together (even with phase issues) or everyone hearing each other over headphones, but all playing at the same time. My experience is all with amateur groups.

What many audiophiles want in sound, and what most people want are not generally the same thing. One surprising thing is you can make pretty good minimalist recordings if you have good musicians, and a good space in which to record without much trouble. The other surprising thing is most people don't like that vs other methods.

 

[Sal1950]

A local grocer sells Parmesan cheese by the block. He says that the taste is far and away better than the stuff in "those plastic containers". Most customers prefer the plastic containers - the ones that have grated Parmesan (with cellulose) in them. He just shakes his head.

Yuck on the packaged cheese. Not much for Parmesan either.
My family always used Romano for our grating cheese, and for sure fresh cut hunks from the block. Grated on our
plates right at the table with the hunk and grater being passed from person to person..

 

[goat76]

Given the differences in the way microphones and human ears respond to sound I don't think that the number of mics used is an important factor.

I hear an obvious advantage to single-point stereo recordings vs. multi-mono recordings, but I'm sure a single stereo microphone recording like that will be really hard to get right when it comes to a full-blown and loud rock band where some separation is needed to avoid sounding like a mess. But I think it works really well for softer and less dense music like the examples above.

The advantage is that true and correct phase correlation can only occur at one single position in the room. This will give a very natural-sounding recorded result of a group of musicians playing together in a room, and all the direct sounds of the instruments and all the reflections from the room will fall into this single position of the microphone with all the correct directions, almost as if it "simulates" a position of a person/listener in the room hearing the band in front of him. Nothing truly as natural sounding as that can be had using 10 to 20 microphones spread around in the recording room, but for certain types of music that's the only way to do it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I hear an obvious advantage to single-point stereo recordings vs. multi-mono recordings, but I'm sure a single stereo microphone recording like that will be really hard to get right when it comes to a full-blown and loud rock band where some separation is needed to avoid sounding like a mess. But I think it works really well for softer and less dense music like the examples above.

The advantage is that true and correct phase correlation can only occur at one single position in the room. This will give a very natural-sounding recorded result of a group of musicians playing together in a room, and all the direct sounds of the instruments and all the reflections from the room will fall into this single position of the microphone with all the correct directions, almost as if it "simulates" a position of a person/listener in the room hearing the band in front of him. Nothing truly as natural sounding as that can be had using 10 to 20 microphones spread around in the recording room, but for certain types of music that's the only way to do it.

I think this is in everyone's imagination. The part that it will naturally simulate the room best, and that it must be natural sounding.

I like a pair of crossed figure 8's (which is what these one mic recordings are), but a crossed pair of cards are not nearly as good usually according to my opinion from my own experience. They can be good, but almost always I find an ORTF or even DIN well placed to be better. Both of these are a pair of cardioids spaced/angled a few inches apart. The ORTF is especially good. They'll give a wider area over which the imaging works vs single point techniques during playback as well.

A pair of spaced omnis (which are much further apart) can also provide a very clean, clear and natural sound in the right space.

A main pair of stereo mics at one point, a pair of omnis out in the hall area, and some judicious mixing in of a few close miked areas can be blended by those with enough skill to sound better focused and yet very natural. You'll be hard pressed to hear anything wrong with it. Keith Johnson's recordings usually have a minimum of 7 microphones often with a few spots added into those 7.

 

[AdamG]

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Registration process started. Thanks for pointing this out to us. Much appreciated Sir.

 

[AdamG]

Registration process started. Thanks for pointing this out to us. Much appreciated Sir.

Belay the above. Already went down this road back in 2021 and Amir is fine for this member to not have a tag.

Carry on….

 

[KMSA]

All well and good for what Sound Liaison said. I prefer the sound of those myself.

What many audiophiles want in sound, and what most people want are not generally the same thing. One surprising thing is you can make pretty good minimalist recordings if you have good musicians, and a good space in which to record without much trouble. The other surprising thing is most people don't like that vs other methods.

'' a good space in which to record'' is getting more difficult these days. Costs are going up and a lot of musicians now record at home. 10-great-albums-recorded-at-home

 

[Blumlein 88]

'' a good space in which to record'' is getting more difficult these days. Costs are going up and a lot of musicians now record at home. 10-great-albums-recorded-at-home

They left off the Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams are made of this". Recorded by Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart in the warehouse loft apartment where they were living at the time.

Lots of people have better gear and about as good a space as say the early Sun studio where so many recordings were made.

 

[KMSA]

Classic Tracks: Eurythmics ‘Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)’fine article on the recording.

 

[KMSA]

They left off the Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams are made of this". Recorded by Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart in the warehouse loft apartment where they were living at the time.

Lots of people have better gear and about as good a space as say the early Sun studio where so many recordings were made.
View attachment 360918

Columbia's 30th Street Studio, the famed recording studio owned by Columbia Records, contained both "Studio C" and "Studio D". Many recordings were made there including Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and Leonard Bernsein's "West Side Story."

This is the reason 'Kind Of Blue', 'Ah Um' and 'Time Out' sounds so much better than 'All right Mama'

 

[TimVG]

This may work reasonably well for simple recordings, but I'm just gonna quote, since I can't explain it any better:

When you have mics that are in the same spot, they pick up very nearly all the exact same information. And when your ears hear the same thing in both ears at the same time, the brain says “this is in the center”. So, it leaves you witha narrow image - all the players stacked up in the center.
Your brain needs distance between the microphones (just like your ears!) in order to give a true sense of space.

And yes, I'm well aware of level differences, but nonetheless a coincident pair of microphones will leave you with a very 2D image.
Not saying they do not have their place, but always in combination.

 

[Blumlein 88]

This may work reasonably well for simple recordings, but I'm just gonna quote, since I can't explain it any better:



And yes, I'm well aware of level differences, but nonetheless a coincident pair of microphones will leave you with a very 2D image.
Not saying they do not have their place, but always in combination.

The problem is that is not always true. Depending upon mic placement it can turn out that way. One problem using a pair of coincident figure 8's, is if people get too far over in the left or right sense it can cause them to jump to the other side sonically. They most definitely are heard very far left or right. Not bunched in the center. Just check out any of the early Chesky recordings, done with the same mic setup and no processing. Definitely not a bunched in the middle perspective.

 

[TimVG]

The problem is that is not always true. Depending upon mic placement it can turn out that way. One problem using a pair of coincident figure 8's, is if people get too far over in the left or right sense it can cause them to jump to the other side sonically. They most definitely are heard very far left or right. Not bunched in the center. Just check out any of the early Chesky recordings, done with the same mic setup and no processing. Definitely not a bunched in the middle perspective.

Unless I'm mistaken, Chesky is small ensembles though. The inherent weakness I'm talking about is most apparent with large groups. Think orchestras. Coincident pairs of any kind as mains leave you with a very 2 dimensional with little depth. Don't get me wrong. I love a nice ribbon (or 2), and you can get a lot out of them in terms of sound and ambiance, but I always complement with other mics. I've never in the end decided on pair or another, it always ends up a blend. So while these OneMic recordings sound nice, it's impossible to say if they could be even better.

 

[holdingpants01]

Coincident pairs of any kind as mains leave you with a very 2 dimensional with little depth.

Only XY recording technique does that, Blumlein or MS can be as wide and deep as it gets, depending on distance and placement. Anyway, the ones made with AEA R88 posted here, have also added artificial reverb, which also helps.
Someone mentioned louder band would be challenging, yes but still possible, this one sounds good and is wide enough (blumlein)

 

[Geert]

this one sounds good and is wide enough

Because the guy is screaming his lungs out

 

[holdingpants01]

Because the guy is screaming his lungs out

right, proper technique is essential

 

[Blumlein 88]

Unless I'm mistaken, Chesky is small ensembles though. The inherent weakness I'm talking about is most apparent with large groups. Think orchestras. Coincident pairs of any kind as mains leave you with a very 2 dimensional with little depth. Don't get me wrong. I love a nice ribbon (or 2), and you can get a lot out of them in terms of sound and ambiance, but I always complement with other mics. I've never in the end decided on pair or another, it always ends up a blend. So while these OneMic recordings sound nice, it's impossible to say if they could be even better.

I again don't think this is correct. One advantage with figure 8s is they pick up more of the hall ambience and it is de-correlated due to the directionality of the ribbons or condenser capsules. I do agree it is often in some venues a good idea to add some spaced omnis and blend it in. The reason however is not from having a bunched center in the resulting recording. As mentioned above it can be more of a problem with coincident X-Y cardioids.

One effect is coincident recordings make the sweet spot for listening smaller. Spacing of about head width enlarges the sweet spot where it works better upon listening.

 

[TimVG]

I again don't think this is correct. One advantage with figure 8s is they pick up more of the hall ambience and it is de-correlated due to the directionality of the ribbons or condenser capsules

Only XY recording technique does that, Blumlein or MS can be as wide and deep as it gets, depending on distance and placement. Anyway, the ones made with AEA R88 posted here, have also added artificial reverb, which also helps.

I don't disagree with any of this per se, but to me ambiance does not equal depth. I would not put M/S in the same discussion as there is an artificial TOA difference. I have used double 8s in Blumlein and M/S as mains and complemented them with with other mics, with very nice results under the right conditions. As a mains however, I've never encountered a coincident pair not benifiting from a support pair.

 

[Geert]

Sound Liasons who posted earlier in this thread, is specialised in single mic recordings. Nevertheless they use support mic's when needed. See for example the recording setup for one their recent recordings at the bottom of this page https://soundliaison.com/collection...roducts/carmen-gomes-inc-stones-in-my-passway.

Just to illustrate that single mic recordings also have their limitations.

 

[goat76]

Anyway, the ones made with AEA R88 posted here, have also added artificial reverb, which also helps.

I had to look that up, and yes, John Cuniberti sometimes uses a bit of reverb but mostly for the up-close vocal. He isolates it to the middle with some mid/side filtering where the singer is usually located, and that way he can leave the natural roomy sound for the more distant instruments that are typically positioned to the sides.


"Do you add reverb at that stage?

Yes, sometimes. A lot of the vocals need reverb. I can automate a reverb. When the singer's up on the mic singing, I can gently bring it up to add that. Then, when they're off the mic and not singing, and it's the band in the room with a solo or something, I can back it down and almost turn it off. I always put some mid/side filter after the send, before the reverb, so that I can force more mid, and no sides at all – if I can get away with it – into the reverb. Because the width of the recordings are pretty wide, and when I turn down the side I get a lot of just lead vocal."

John Cuniberti: OneMic Recording Sessions

Tape Op is a free magazine exclusively about recording music. Subscribe (yep, for free) at tapeop.com.

tapeop.com

Someone mentioned louder band would be challenging, yes but still possible, this one sounds good and is wide enough (blumlein)

That one sounds very good, but it's still a pretty clean-sounding band even if they are rocking hard. I think another level of challenge will be with instruments with way more distortion and a loud boomy-sounding bass that competes with a hard-hitting drummer.