Older AVR - use it to power my L-C-R speakers? Input needed, thx!

[tlin]

Dedicated HT in our basement - 50/50 split between music listening (me/buddies) and movies (family). I'm the original owner of a Harman Kardon AVR-7200 that I've replaced with a lightly used Denon AVR-X4400H (better surround sound processing with the Denon).

The Denon serves as my AVR but I'd like to use the HK's amps to power my front stage (LCR speakers) as well as additional rear/height surrounds when I add more speakers (onboard amps support 9.1, Height 2 requires external amplification).

The Denon supports pre-outs and the HK supports direct inputs. Excerpt from the HK manual below followed by my quandary:

It seems I'd have to use the volume control on BOTH the Denon and the HK if I were to do this OR AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

I realize I can experiment but would love some input before taking a plunge and dealing with all the wiring fun (you know the drill).

Thanks in advance!

 

[DVDdoug]

It should be OK as long as the volume doesn't change when it's switched off (or to "standby").

 

[Chrispy]

Generally you would just adjust volume with the main avr, Denon in your case. You'd simply set the gain appropriately on the HK avr (using those inputs you mention) once and leave it alone afterwards. You just need to find an appropriate volume setting on the HK for the gain involved (not so much as to introduce amp noise from the Denon pre-outs but not clipping the HK as well).

 

[tlin]

You guys made my day - thanks!

 

[Chrispy]

FWIW looks like your Denon is the slightly stronger amp section so I'd probably use the HK on surround duties....

 

[tlin]

FWIW looks like your Denon is the slightly stronger amp section so I'd probably use the HK on surround duties....

Yes....as much as anything, I wanted to get a feel if going w/ external amplification for the fronts would be something I'd even notice. It at least gives me something to play with before buying amps, listening and possibly having to process and pay for returns if I don't experience any noticeable improvements.

Before anyone bites my head off, this is purely a subjective exercise and I don't plan on doing any true blind/objective testing. This other AVR is laying around, I've got some time to kill - I'm tinkering....

 

[tlin]

Well so far, this isn't tenable with this setup. Significant hiss/buzzing out of the three speakers I wanted to experiment with. I am getting signal out to the speakers once I raise the volume but the floor level of the hiss/buzzing is pretty damn loud. Tried switching out RCA interconnects, no change.

I appreciate those who've chimed in - I'll play with this all a bit more later tonight.

Cheers!

 

[Chrispy]

Yes....as much as anything, I wanted to get a feel if going w/ external amplification for the fronts would be something I'd even notice. It at least gives me something to play with before buying amps, listening and possibly having to process and pay for returns if I don't experience any noticeable improvements.

Before anyone bites my head off, this is purely a subjective exercise and I don't plan on doing any true blind/objective testing. This other AVR is laying around, I've got some time to kill - I'm tinkering....

On the basis of the specs not anything likely to be audible. More interesting what your expectations about amps generally are perhaps. There are thousands of amp combos out in the world, could be a while to "experience" them

 

[tlin]

On the basis of the specs not anything likely to be audible. More interesting what your expectations about amps generally are perhaps. There are thousands of amp combos out in the world, could be a while to "experience" them

Expectations low, curiosity High....tonight's experiment didn't get me anywhere but also didn't cost me anything.

 

[Head_Unit]

.tonight's experiment didn't get me anywhere but also didn't cost me anything.

The thing is those "direct inputs" are not direct into the power amp section, they are into the preamp section. So you then have to turn the volume way up to use as a power amp, raising the internal noise and distortion on the HK and amplifying the noise and distortion from the Denon.
- I'd suggest what the heck, try the experiment in reverse, LCR from the Denon and rears from the HK.

 

[tlin]

The thing is those "direct inputs" are not direct into the power amp section, they are into the preamp section. So you then have to turn the volume way up to use as a power amp, raising the internal noise and distortion on the HK and amplifying the noise and distortion from the Denon.
- I'd suggest what the heck, try the experiment in reverse, LCR from the Denon and rears from the HK.

The hiss/buzzing was there the minute I powered everything up and it was loud. As in I could still hear it from my home office probably 40' away and down the hall. Turning the volume of the HK up/down had ZERO impact on this. Turning the volume up on the Denon only covered up that hiss/buzzing with music.

I tried all the menu settings I could, swapped interconnects, etc. I had no obvious way to experiment with grounding but that didn't make sense given I've never heard anything from the individual AVRs when running my system on their own. I gave up, moving on....

Anyway, your note makes sense, I appreciate the input. For now, I'm back to running the Denon solo and am very happy with it. That darn "I wonder if separate amps for the LCR fronts would sound even better/louder" itch hasn't been scratched - that probably won't go away until I stop browsing sites like ASR and others.... .

Cheers!

 

[Head_Unit]

I wonder if separate amps for the LCR fronts would sound even better/louder

In our experience (Denon AVR-X3600H --> AVM 70 + ATI 525NC), no. There is a difference in the sound but likely Audyssey vs ARC more than anything. We play the difficult Focal 936/CC900/SR900 at loud but not earsplitting levels, I doubt we were clipping. However, those itches can be a bear!