Okto 8 Owner’s Thread

[DWPress]

Sounds like commercialization of this -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-okto-dac8-8ch-dac-amp.7064/post-536652.

Yes, this is the same guy from 4 years ago with a more mature software. I hadn't realized the XMOS 200 chip had this kind of power.

Cool that they are offering the additional functionality and as a DIYer / tinkerer I'll probably try it out, but I can't help but think that it is somewhat not needed with the Okto already offering the rather unique USB / AES which allows software DSP on a USB host with the AES inputs.

I was thinking the same thing. I currently connect analog signals including phono to the Okto via AES from my MSB ADC which then gets sent to my Mac via USB for processing before going back to the dac8 Pro via USB in 8 channels. Yes, I could host the XO on the Okto for all sources but still need the computer in the chain for the other things I need to do and have less flexibility making changes.

I did here back from @fabriceo in email today after my inquiry last night:

First let me say the DAC8PRO is powerful , it can treat 28 biquad per core at 96k and you have 4 or 7 core available depending if you use the version with 8 AES channels or with 2 AES (seems 2 will be fine in your case)

But it can not provide enough power for FIR and then I have not included this feature.

Still you can do as you suggest some delay and some primary crossover or EQ in the dac8pro, so that it could be autonomous in driving your speakers safely. Then you keep your host software and FIR treatment to improve the filtering and phase matching.

So still possible to do DSP on individual channels in and out of Okto.

I've got new tweeters arriving from Madiasound early next week so I'll have to remeasure everything soon. Perfect time to trial this software/firmware with some new XO slopes.

 

[AudioJester]

Agreed.

On the other hand it takes the dac8 Stereo to a whole new product category. Which is quite amazing really.

Very excited about the news either way.

Reminds me of Roon. Keeps doing more things than I ever imagined when I first bought it!

 

[mdsimon2]

Cool that they are offering the additional functionality and as a DIYer / tinkerer I'll probably try it out, but I can't help but think that it is somewhat not needed with the Okto already offering the rather unique USB / AES which allows software DSP on a USB host with the AES inputs.

After beta testing the DSP firmware I am eating my words on this lol.

Using the DSP firmware allows me to remove a box from my stereo cabinet, a RPi4 which currently runs CamillaDSP. I have a Mac mini in the cabinet that I use to store local media and to back up all the Macs in the house via time machine. By connecting the Mac to the Okto I can upload DSP programs to the Okto and I can measure output from the DSP firmware via REW as the firmware can route processed data back to the USB host. As the Mac isn't directly used for processing it doesn't matter if it goes down for updates or any other reason.

I can use it with Pure AES and Pure USB. This means I can easily switch between using the Mac as a source and my usual Apple TV. In the past, if I wanted to play from the Mac I would use Airplay which obviously resamples.

It also allows the AES inputs to be used as independent sources so I can add more sources in the future. It dynamically switches sample rate depending on source sample rate which means I can use sources with different sample rates, something that was not possible with CamillaDSP. For my relatively limited IIR DSP routine it easily works at all sample rates up to and including 192 kHz (67% DSP usage with 1 core devoted to input routing and 6 cores devoted to DSP).

While I like the CamillaDSP GUI, I think the ability to monitor any output real time via REW is a huge advantage. It also can also detect if clipping is encountered in the DSP program. It will give you an indication that clipping has occurred on the front panel and will automatically attenuate by 6 dB. There are also plans in the future to split volume control between the DSP and the DAC. The first 12 dB attenuation would occur in the DSP and the DAC would handle the rest. This gives even more flexibility to handle sources that are high in level without clipping, while also being able to safely turn up the volume on low level sources.

Measured performance of the DSP is near perfect -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-and-rising-noise-floor.42383/post-1993984.

And although it requires command line work, it less than what is required to install CamillaDSP.

Overall I get the same DSP performance with better usability, so a win-win. Beyond impressed with the new capabilities of a DAC I purchased four years ago!

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

And although it requires command line work,

At least for me, myself, I am still very much hesitating to implement this type of (frequent?) manipulation/writing on "firmware" of an audio device.

I am living in Japan using DAC8PRO (firmware 1.32), and if I would "destroy" irreversibly the firmware, what should I do for recovery??
Should I send back the unit to Prague for repair/maintenance with cost? How long does it take? Transportation costs and import/export tax? Physical safety of such transportation?

I still prefer independent system-wide onestop software DSP Center (in my case "EKIO") with which I can very flexibly safely change/configure any of the DSP parameters (even on-the-fly) using well designed GUI interface and mouse operation.

 

[Honken]

Very nice to see that it is that capable, I was honestly not expecting it to be. Definitely makes it easier to test the room EQ with REW, so looking forward to trying that out.

 

[AudioJester]

At least for me, myself, I am still very much hesitating to implement this type of (frequent?) manipulation/writing on "firmware" of an audio device.

I am living in Japan using DAC8PRO (firmware 1.32), and if I would "destroy" irreversibly the firmware, what should I do for recovery??
Should I send back the unit to Prague for repair/maintenance with cost? How long does it take? Transportation costs and import/export tax? Physical safety of such transportation?

Lots of us have upgraded the firmware. Iam not aware of anyone bricking their Okto?
Upgrading firmware for electronics is not a big deal these days. Have courage

 

[dualazmak]

Upgrading firmware for electronics is not a big deal these days. Have courage

Maybe someday (in the near future, or not?) I will...
I have no reason/rational, however, right now for firmware upgrade for my DAC8PRO ver.1.32 working perfectly nice (Pure USB mode) in my latest multichannel setup.

 

[mdsimon2]

At least for me, myself, I am still very much hesitating to implement this type of (frequent?) manipulation/writing on "firmware" of an audio device.

You upgrade the firmware once and then create and load DSP programs to the DAC. If you want to use the DAC in its normal form, just change to DSP Program 0 and it will act like normal FW 1.6.

I am living in Japan using DAC8PRO (firmware 1.32), and if I would "destroy" irreversibly the firmware, what should I do for recovery??
Should I send back the unit to Prague for repair/maintenance with cost? How long does it take? Transportation costs and import/export tax? Physical safety of such transportation?

They give a lot of great information on the FW 1.5 upgrade instructions -> https://www.oktoresearch.com/assets/dac8pro/fw/dac8pro_fw_15_release_note.pdf, including a troubleshooting section indicating they will send you a JTAG free of cost if you run into issues.

Troubleshooting

Initial firmware versions released in 2019 and early 2020 contain a bug that could prevent a successful update of your device and under some circumstances, this might happen even with more recent versions on systems running Windows. Although there is no risk of bricking the unit, you may encounter an error or find that the update was not installed. If this occurs, please follow the “Any operating system (using bootable Linux Mint USB stick)” guide as an alternative.

If that doesn’t help either, please contact us to request a hardware programming tool that connects to the dac8 PRO's digital input board, bypassing the bug. While we will provide the programming tool at no cost, we may ask you to forward it to another person in your country after you've successfully updated your unit. We will cover any associated shipping expenses.

Please do not hesitate to contact us at [email protected] if you run into difficulties and need further guidance.

I somewhat understand hesitancy to upgrade, but I think it is mostly FUD.

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

They give a lot of great information on the FW 1.5 upgrade instructions -> https://www.oktoresearch.com/assets/dac8pro/fw/dac8pro_fw_15_release_note.pdf, including a troubleshooting section indicating they will send you a JTAG free of cost if you run into issues.

Thank you, yes I know this backup service of OKTO, but this still means I will not be able to listen to music for several weeks or so using my multichannel audio rig...

I am seriously considering the feasibility of purchasing second updated/newest DAC8PRO for safer backup purposes.

 

[mkt]

There was an email from Okto last month saying that v1.6 firmware is ready for release and "due to our focus on the upcoming Munich event, updates to our website including firmware download link will follow one week later."

Is the 1.6 FW on their website?

 

[Bwmr]

After beta testing the DSP firmware I am eating my words on this lol.

Using the DSP firmware allows me to remove a box from my stereo cabinet, a RPi4 which currently runs CamillaDSP. I have a Mac mini in the cabinet that I use to store local media and to back up all the Macs in the house via time machine. By connecting the Mac to the Okto I can upload DSP programs to the Okto and I can measure output from the DSP firmware via REW as the firmware can route processed data back to the USB host. As the Mac isn't directly used for processing it doesn't matter if it goes down for updates or any other reason.

I can use it with Pure AES and Pure USB. This means I can easily switch between using the Mac as a source and my usual Apple TV. In the past, if I wanted to play from the Mac I would use Airplay which obviously resamples.

It also allows the AES inputs to be used as independent sources so I can add more sources in the future. It dynamically switches sample rate depending on source sample rate which means I can use sources with different sample rates, something that was not possible with CamillaDSP. For my relatively limited IIR DSP routine it easily works at all sample rates up to and including 192 kHz (67% DSP usage with 1 core devoted to input routing and 6 cores devoted to DSP).

While I like the CamillaDSP GUI, I think the ability to monitor any output real time via REW is a huge advantage. It also can also detect if clipping is encountered in the DSP program. It will give you an indication that clipping has occurred on the front panel and will automatically attenuate by 6 dB. There are also plans in the future to split volume control between the DSP and the DAC. The first 12 dB attenuation would occur in the DSP and the DAC would handle the rest. This gives even more flexibility to handle sources that are high in level without clipping, while also being able to safely turn up the volume on low level sources.

Measured performance of the DSP is near perfect -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-and-rising-noise-floor.42383/post-1993984.

And although it requires command line work, it less than what is required to install CamillaDSP.

Overall I get the same DSP performance with better usability, so a win-win. Beyond impressed with the new capabilities of a DAC I purchased four years ago!

Michael

Thank you mdsimon2!
You just gave me the incentive and motivation to upgrade the firmware (I have been procrastinating).

 

[mdsimon2]

There was an email from Okto last month saying that v1.6 firmware is ready for release and "due to our focus on the upcoming Munich event, updates to our website including firmware download link will follow one week later."

Is the 1.6 FW on their website?

No, not yet. There have been a few changes made to the DSP firmware since then, so my guess is they were waiting for the DSP firmware to get lined out before the official release of 1.6. I also think they may be reworking some of their firmware upgrade tools for different platforms.

Michael

 

[Zooqu1ko]

Thank you, yes I know this backup service of OKTO, but this still means I will not be able to listen to music for several weeks or so using my multichannel audio rig...

I am seriously considering the feasibility of purchasing second updated/newest DAC8PRO for safer backup purposes.

You can just buy the JTAG device, verify that it works, and keep it in a drawer until you might need it (i.e. hopefully never). At less than 2% of the price of a DAC8, it may be a nice safety net to have.

 

[DWPress]

I upgraded to the 1.5FW yesterday in preparation. While they are handy at times, I resent the stupid channel indicators on the display. Fabrice noted that there were new additions to the display. Would someone who has made the update to 1.6 please share a pic of the current version?

 

[mdsimon2]

I upgraded to the 1.5FW yesterday in preparation. While they are handy at times, I resent the stupid channel indicators on the display. Fabrice noted that there were new additions to the display. Would someone who has made the update to 1.6 please share a pic of the current version?

I had the same reaction when I first upgraded to 1.5, although now I have grown accustomed to it. Using vanilla 1.6 the display is the same as 1.5.

With the DSP firmware, selecting a DSP program will show the DSP program number to the upper left of volume.

If your DSP program requires resampling (decimation) due to excessive load, it will show an x2 (rate halved) or x4 (rate quartered) to the lower left of volume.

If you have the saturate command in your DSP program and experience clipping in the DSP, it will show -6 to the upper right of volume. This will be reset by muting / unmuting.

Here is a photo showing all three of the DSP firmware specific indications.

Michael

 

[DWPress]

Good news! I forgot I had a small Win10 box in the closet and was able to update my DAC8 Pro!

Let the fun begin.

 

[mdsimon2]

I've been thinking about the xmosusb tool and its ability to output DAC status (DAC mode, AES sample rate, USB sample rate). If using the Okto in USB/AES mode with CamillaDSP you could use a python script to periodically check if AES and USB sample rate match, and if a mismatch is detected restart CamillaDSP using a sample rate that matches the AES sample rate. This would allow the Okto / CamillaDSP to be used with variable sample rate sources with no resampling.

Fabrice has also talked about adding DAC modes USB/AES2 (inputs 3-4) , USB/AES3 (inputs 5-6) and USB/AES4 (inputs 7-8). In a similar manner to sample rate switching, you could trigger a CamillaDSP configuration change and restart if the DAC mode changes. This would allow you to use 4 different stereo inputs and be able to switch between them via the remote that controls the Okto.

As a DIYer / tinkerer, this thing just keeps getting better.

Michael

 

[epicure]

Our club is completely Mac based. Is FW 1.6 now standard?

 

[mdsimon2]

Firmware 1.6 has not been officially released yet.

Michael

 

[mdsimon2]

Firmware 1.6 officially released -> https://mailchi.mp/oktoresearch/firmware-v-16-release?e=8ee31ee491.

Looks like the firmware can currently only be installed with windows.

Michael