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Possible solution for DTS/Dolby/Atmos+eARC+HDCP to AES/EBU via Dante? (for Okta 8 etc)

carolimagni

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I've been trying to find something similar to the Arvus HDMI-2A or H2-4D. Ultimately to see if consumer multichannel sources like blu ray players, Apple TVs etc could be sent from HDMI-/+eARC into the XLR AES digital inputs of an Okto DAC8 Pro while not having to fret about HDCP, support eARC and decode any and all Dolby formats. This is a lofty goal apparently. I'm clearly not the first to explore this from the posts on here.

Fully aware of USB/PC playback options, this is more for full off-the-shelf HDMI device support alongside USB. The Storm Audio ISP units are off the table however in this quest as they're north of £8k+ from what I've found.

However, could these 2 boxen be combined to support what I'm after, using Dante as a middle-man? It's not that much cheaper than an Arvus unit, but from the info available those Arvus units don't support HDCP anyway. The blustream box appears to be a new device.

Blustream SW42DA 4 Way HDMI Switcher Dual Output
1735576074846.png

• Supports all known HDMI audio formats including Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD Master Audio transmission
• HDMI audio breakout of Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD to up to 8 channels of Dante audio (7.1ch), with an independent 2 down-mixed channels of Dante audio
• HDMI audio breakout of Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD to up to 10 channels of Dante audio (7.1.2ch / 5.1.4ch)*
..
• HDCP 2.3 compliant with advanced EDID management
https://www.blustream-us.com/hdmi-switchers-sw42da

if that Dante output was then connected to

Sonifex AVN-DIO19 Dante® to AES3 16 Channel I/O Converter
1735576152359.png

  • 8 x balanced digital stereo AES3 inputs and outputs on 2 x 25-way D-types.
  • Sample rate conversion of physical inputs to Dante system sample rate.
  • Physical output sample rate matches Dante system sample rate.
https://www.sonifex.com/avn/avn-dio19b.shtml

with the DB25 to 4 x XLR3M and 4 x XLR3F cable.


Since it would be limited to 8 channels, the most you could achieve Atmos-wise would be 5.1.2/5.2.2. But unless I'm missing something, this would enable what I'm after. It would be using 20% of the blustreams parts given its other functions, but possibly get over the HDCP hurdles others have faced in the past.

Thoughts? I think it could be a powerful combo. But could this introduce unwanted latency?

Cheers,
Charles
 
Where are you getting an 8 channel limitation? The Blustream appears to support 9 channels, and the Sonifex appears to support 16 (8x stereo equals 16) unless I'm misunderstanding something, so you should be able to do 7.1.2 or 5.1.4.
 
I misunderstood and thought 16 channel was to mean 8 channels of input and output, not 16 channels of each. You're absolutely right, it has 16 channels of output.

With my basic understanding of how the clocking of AES works - this means you could hook up 2 Oktas to be a DAC for every channel and it be centrally clocked? Edit: not forgetting the Blustreams channel limit of 8/10*
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Isn’t this what the AudioPraise Vanity Pro is designed to do? Take 8 channel LPCM digital audio over HDMI and convert it to AES/EBU to feed to the Okto.

These same guys used to do a soundboard for the Oppo 203 that made it output AES/EBU instead of analog audio.

You can get around the Arvus HDCP issue with a HDMI switch. Will need some digging, but there are places on the internet where people keep track of switches that strip HDPC.

I don’t follow the Dolby Atmos stuff, so sorry if I misunderstood your requirements.
 
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That is what it's designed for as I understand, LPCM or DSD. I didn't know that about the Oppo boards being by them, that's very interesting.

However yes, the VanityPRO doesn't support eARC, nor can it do decoding of Dolby/DTS formats as I understand.

The Atmos side specifically is less important to me so much as decoding the various formats after receiving them over HDMI/eARC and have no quibbles about having to set LPCM output. To have the big name streaming boxen "just work" with the various proprietary encodings. (albeit with a hefty bill of kit).

So the Arvus HDMI-A2, it's $3k USD outright, had this confirmed by email. It doesn't do any decoding of Dolby formats, I think any feeding devices would have be configured as a pure LPCM output. It would be acting solely as a transport. This makes sense given its targeted at game and movie studios like Sony. There is a used one on the Greek avsite.gr classifieds for 200EUR but alas I am not Greek and thus can't get an account on there.

On HDCP stripping, the 1.4 version of the U9 ViewHD 1x2 splitter is known to do this apparently. HDCP isn't a big hurdle with that in min;, the possible value I thought is more in the codecs and improved interoperability. It was a nicer thought to have to include 1 less hack element given the already questionable setup I suggested :D

Although I've just spotted this.
• Supports: 44.1, 48, 88.2 & 96kHz Dante® sample rates @ 24-bit
If the Blustream's Dante interface was used to bridge eARC source material that was over 24/96Khz it would need to be resampled. I don't know that much Blu Ray, or domestic streamer material would exceed this so it feels like a non-issue. It's still enabled the jump from 16/48 on plain HDMI ARC to 24/96 of eARC.

I don't play SACD directly from the medium, so I don't want/need the AES inputs to accept handle a DSD input source; I'd be using the Okto's USB to play DSF. This is however a major plus of the VanityPRO unit generally for those with a physical collection, the Blustream can't help if you want to keep it native.

Something else to think about is those Trinnov processors support full whack 4k/120hz, HDMI 2.1. The Blustream supports HDR, a plus for HT, but no HDMI 2.1. This means you'd be capping your Xbox Series X/PS5 Pro/next gens console if you wanted those in the switcher.

I realise I'm answering my own thread a bit here, but I thought this might be useful info to someone else too.
 
@carolimagni, have you thought about the MiniDSP Flex HTx? It doesn’t solve the Dolby Atmos, but takes an eARC input and outputs a balanced audio for a good power amp.

I’m going to use the Flex HTx with my Oppo 203 which handles the decoding requirements.
 
I hadn't considered it, although I started this as an audiophile venture (2.2ish) and am just exploring how the DAC could serve in HT. Although, if I had started with HT in mind, the Flex HTx and something like the Oppo 203 would have been just the ticket. Particularly given it seems it has a very good DAC stage. Sounds like a great setup.

I'm reading historically there were Oppo 203s modded with a Vanity 203HD module that could put 8x RCA spdif, which could be modified to AES/EBU and with a custom cable could be turned into digital AES inputs (channel pairs). That's cool.

For stereo/DSD, some early custom Oktas were made to allow an i2s input directly from a Vanity 203HD module in an Oppo 203.

I'm quite new to the Dolby Atmos stuff also. If an Apple TV say were set to LPCM, I don't think it can output the ceiling/up-firing layers in 5.1.4/7.1.2 over HDMI, can it?

I suppose this armchair contrived setup also lacks built-in support for room correction tech like DIRAC. The Okta has an interesting dual AES/USB mode with 8ch I/O for PC-based DSP etc. I think it's possible it be done in software. Though I think for music/2.x sources and basic conventional DSP filters, the Oktas on-chip DSP would be more performant.

Could this work?

Blustream box Sonifex box Okta DIRAC Live/VST (or similar) Okta
Decode Dolby/DTS/Atmos up to 5.1.4/7.1.2 to Dante -> convert to AES/EBU -> record this AES/USB -> do room correction in software -> USB -> playback

I think this could risk introducing latency in the chain, but it could also be very powerful. The "just works" rather falls away with that idea though.

1735687700601.png
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Smyth do a Dante version of their Realiser: https://smyth-research.com/shop/

Not cheap - but not as expensive as the Storm stuff either - and Storm won't do Dante.

Although, for domestic use, I can't see the need for Dante - I would have thought the Balanced (or unbalanced) or AES3 versions of the realiser would be more than adequate.

Pros: You also get the phenomenal headphone virtualisation
Cons: Smyth are an "interesting" company to deal with....
 
Although, for domestic use, I can't see the need for Dante - I would have thought the Balanced (or unbalanced) or AES3 versions of the realiser would be more than adequate.
Depends. Dante is advantageous with the PCs and Merging HAPI.
Pros: You also get the phenomenal headphone virtualisation
Bonus.
Cons: Smyth are an "interesting" company to deal with....
Beyond interesting.
 
Depends. Dante is advantageous with the PCs and Merging HAPI.

Bonus.

Beyond interesting.
I'd be interested to know if you have a take on the Goldberg-esque proposition in #7. Trying to keep things legal and "bring your own DAC" to HT, seems a pipedream without entering 5 figures with Trinnov or Storm Audio.

You have previous with the Okto and from what I can see in other threads a pretty special surround setup. I note your use of Merging DA8P cards - I was exploring an RME HDSPe AES-32 card; which could feed one or more Oktas, centrally clocked. USB may be all I need however.

The long plan is to keep it a bit more old school, with passives, and slightly downmarket with the Okto feeding:
4x KEF R3 Meta passives driven by Rotel RB-1553
R2 Meta Center driven by Topping B200
REL HT 1003/II (until I can afford to re-ship a Rythmik F series XLR to the UK)
 
I'd be interested to know if you have a take on the Goldberg-esque proposition in #7. Trying to keep things legal and "bring your own DAC" to HT, seems a pipedream without entering 5 figures with Trinnov or Storm Audio.
Blustream box Sonifex box Okta DIRAC Live/VST (or similar) Okta
Not sure how you can get more than 8 channels out of the Sonifex. "The AVN-DIO19 audio converter and interface converts up to eight digital stereo AES3 inputs and eight digital stereo AES3 outputs to and from the Dante Audio-over-IP networking standard." It will handle 16 in/out over Dante and you can $tack them.
convert to AES/EBU -> record this AES/USB -> do room correction in software -> USB -> playback
I have considered this and it might be doable but, if you need more than 8 channels, it is a problem.
 
I've not practically used AES3 before, it was designed for broadcast from what I've read. But as kyuu pointed out, they're stereo pairs of AES3, and there's 8 of those pairs.

There are 2 DB-25 input/outputs on the rear of the unit. Using the adapter, each of these can output 4 XLRs of AES3 stereo pairs, which is 8 channels per DB-25 connector. I think it's 16 both ways. Each colour could align to an XLR input on the back of the Okto. However
1736388472782.png

Unfortunately if you want more than 8 channels of decoding, the Blustream can't do that, no. However, the Arvus H1-D can decode 16 channels of Atmos over Dante. Seems like getting 8+ channel Dolby decoding will cost atleast 3,250USD. If the historic Arvus HDMI-2A is anything to go by, you'd need to strip HDCP too. It's got 9.1.4 support right there in the screenshot however :)
 
Yup. You are correct.
 
Kal, do you think an SW42DA connected to a MacMini running a Mitch Barnett convolution connected to an Okto Pro 8 channel DAC, with volume control done by the Okto work? Source would be a TV via eARC movies and an Nvidea Shield via HMDI for immersive music. For two channel music the SW42DA would not be involved and instead the MacMini would be a Roon endpoint. My speakers are 5.0.2, so I don’t need more than 8 channels. I would have Mitch design a low latency filter for the TV and Nvidia, and a higher latency, better filter for Roon Music. I would reserve the 48khz sample rate for the TV low latency filter, and use the higher latency convolver for all higher sampling rates. SW42DA would not attenuate or process the signal, just decode and send it to the MacMini.
 
I don't know. Seems reasonable but I have no experience yet with the SW42DA and/or using the MacMini for this.
 
Is the SW42DA available already? Not seeing it on their distributor sites in the US unless I missed it.

I wonder if it will work with a Genelec 9401A out of the box. On the SW42DA page they have a 1 liner for AES67 interoperability but nothing in the manual.
 
I believe the user manual is on-line.
 
I believe the user manual is on-line.
Yea I did not see any mention of the word AES67 in there (if you are referring to the bluestream manual). I am not too knowledgeable about the interoperability between the two protocols, so not sure if by default it is and how device dependent it is and/or it needs to be toggled on.


EDIT: Guessing will have to use the Dante controller to configure it
 
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Pair this with the new Merging Technologies HAPI MK3 and 16 channels of the dacs, and you’ll have the best sounding Atmos theatre possible up to 16 channels. And with the MK3 it has Dante native so no need to use Ravenna in AES67 mode.
Sample rates?
 
Maybe. I'd like to confirm that for myself.
 
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