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noob question about house curve

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Marcus Aseth

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I've added a LS6dB filter at 100Hz with a 6dB Gain, is that the right frequency? Given a flat frequency, usually at which frequency do people place the Low Shelf filter? Up to 200 maybe?
 
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Marcus Aseth

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After EQ, I've ended up with this... how bad is it? :\

Capture.PNG
 

Eetu

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Should I have REW EQ the mountain between 1k and 2k?
If this is with the Kali LP6 v2 spinorama correction EQ in place it's best you don't EQ above 1k any further. The ripple is due to single point measurement and if you would take multiple measurements in slightly different positions and averaged them (or used the MMM technique) the waviness should be reduced.

Your response looks good to me. Somehow I thought your setup was mid/farfield but since it's nearfield the way you are approaching it now (EQ bass to flat and add bass shelving if necessary) is good. How does it sound?
 
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Marcus Aseth

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it sounds great honestly, the bass where never this good :D
although, I had ended up EQing those high frequencies x_x
to make sure I haven't messed up, I need a moving mic measurement, right?
How do I do that from REW?
 

Rednaxela

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Marcus Aseth

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the video at that link is outdated, REW interface doesn't have a record button
Edit: nevermind, is under RTA, I was in the wrong tab
 
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Marcus Aseth

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the readings are very low and in the left bottom corner of the graph despite being 75dB... nevermind, I don't think this is worth the bother/struggle to figure it out, I would rather take 9 separate measurements then average xD
But I leave it to tomorrow :)
 
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Marcus Aseth

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Nevermind, I ended up doing it today lol
So indeed you where correct, I've removed the corrections 1500Hz and above from the EQ, took multiple measurements, averaged, this is the result:
Capture.PNG


there where no problems in the high end after all :D
So I have 2 questions about this, I feel like the music is too bright on some parts, should I apply one filter to have it roll off from 3k and above? Also should I equalize the dune at 1500Hz and the dip at 600Hz?
If I do, would take 3 additional filters and it would look like so (img below)
Capture.PNG

Is it reasonable?

And final question, should I go and eq a bit more on the 30Hz - 100Hz region to have it look smoother (like a little boost at 35Hz for example), or is ok like this?
 
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Marcus Aseth

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I've went ahead and tried the 3 filter shown above, except I've changed the LP1 filter for an High Shelf, this is the measured result:
Capture.PNG

This should be good right?
The only question left is if I should leave it like this or add 3-4 filters to the low region to make it more smooth, let me know what you think :)
 

ernestcarl

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Ok guys, I've let REW EQ from 20 to 500 Hz, and this is what I got now:
View attachment 201932

Was the target I used to EQ too low? I was trying to minimize that abyss at 650Hz...
If this is ok, what should I do next? Should I have REW EQ the mountain between 1k and 2k?
Should I do a "manual" filter pass to make the bass region even flatter?
Or should I do it again with a higher target line?

So far it's using only 9 filters

Your single-point measurement methodology needs some work. It's hard to gauge the overall balance when the L+R sum is misaligned.

1650836401192.png


You might as well take separate left and right measurements... vector average or 'align sum' them if you want to see the summed response in the bass. PEQs for the left and right often need to be individualized. Shared PEQ creation usually comes after the former.
 

ernestcarl

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MMM you did (or you didn't use?) overcomes this issue... which would be good.

But, overlayed views of the separate L and R channels besides simultaneous L+R are also important. With and without EQ... As to what the correct amount of overall level balance in the bass and HF should be... well, your ears should be the ultimate deciding factor.
 
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Marcus Aseth

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Your single-point measurement methodology needs some work. It's hard to gauge the overall balance when the L+R sum is misaligned.
since post #49 I'm doing 3 measurements (center of the listening position, 10cm to the left and 10cm to the right) then EQing on the average, should be good enough, right?
Also still thinking to the question/image in post #50 if I should for example EQ at 37 Hz and in the bass region in general to have it be smoother, let me know on that guys, please ^_^
 
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Marcus Aseth

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Question: how many filters is too many filters? Right now my EQ is using 19, but on a youtube comment someone said the less you use the better because they add distortion in the time domain... what does that means?
is 19 acceptable?
 

ernestcarl

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since post #49 I'm doing 3 measurements (center of the listening position, 10cm to the left and 10cm to the right) then EQing on the average, should be good enough, right?

There are differing opinions here as to how many measurements is good enough, but this is also depends on what range of frequencies you are trying to "correct". Since you have only a single desk and seat setup using (anechoically) well known measuring speakers, a single-point technique may be enough to primarily equalize only the bass response akin to how Gelenec's GLM does things. Some people think a single-point is good enough if you take into careful consideration the wavelength sizes and use frequency dependent windowing.

If you are trying to do more than that, essentially making adjustments above the bass and transition zone well beyond the simple generalized filters already found in the internal DSP of your monitors e.g. HF shelving, you certainly would want more data points. Averaging multiple measurements like what Dirac and Sonarworks does may be warranted...

Charles Sprinkle from Kali Audio has a different approach altogether and has given talks about using the moving microphone method (MMM) to correct up to ~700Hz. Everything above that is expected to be either left alone or adjusted tonally (depending on your ear's preference) with shelving filters.

Also still thinking to the question/image in post #50 if I should for example EQ at 37 Hz and in the bass region in general to have it be smoother, let me know on that guys, please ^_^

Personally, I'd use MMM to possibly smooth it out. IMO, a boost of no more than 5 or 6 dB at most, if desired. Check the decay behavior before and after EQ.

Question: how many filters is too many filters? Right now my EQ is using 19, but on a youtube comment someone said the less you use the better because they add distortion in the time domain... what does that means?
is 19 acceptable?

I know that this may sound contradictory from what I said before, but you can use more... as long as you are aware of the range affected by your filters -- so you might want to think about the specific frequency or range of frequencies affected and the size of the wavelength, the Q as well as the gain. When one is equalizing above Schroeder, the likelihood of mangling the pristine "direct sound" increases. So ask yourself: do I really want to alter the "direct sound" of the monitors? In the case of more automated algorithms that use FIR corrections, there may be more than a hundred points used for all we know -- though, again, we are not primarily doing detailed speaker equalization here... the safest and simplest goal is to EQ problematic room modes only in the bass that actually stand out to the ears.

Distortion in the time domain has to do with the fact that regular filters can alter the phase response further away from what's considered as the expected "minimum phase" behavior of the system. This generally is not an issue unless if one is using high order high-pass filters, for instance. But if your room's bass decay is really bad, a boosting EQ applied into a problematic area can potentially add more ringing -- so examine the decay behavior . In such cases where it causes additional unwanted ringing, keeping the dip mostly untouched may be preferable for critical listening.
 
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RayDunzl

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In the case of more automated algorithms that use FIR corrections, there may be more than a hundred points used for all we know

Example:

AcourateDRC FIR filter on a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI

1650897005972.png


IIR filters handle the bass and more broad ranges of EQ in this case, due to the number of taps limited to 6144.
 

ernestcarl

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Example:

AcourateDRC FIR filter on a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI

View attachment 202259

IIR filters handle the bass and more broad ranges of EQ in this case, due to the number of taps limited to 6144.

With more automated FIR correction like in the above case, the question of maximum number of PEQs is somewhat immaterial.
 

czt

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Yes, IIR filters and their phase shift side effect on top of the speaker/room phase problems. The reason why I prefer ARC 3 (with Audyssey MultEQ technology) in "natural phase" mode, if EQ needed, but of course it's not free.
 
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Marcus Aseth

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I did some listening with and without that 6dB Gain filter at 600Hz, and the crazy thing was that in a certain song with that filter active I could hear a second voice singing that wasn't audible before xD I've also decreased the HS filter to only -1,20dB, sounds good now
I think I might be having a final small problem in the bass region and that I actually need the moving mic method to properly address this, the problem I'm having with that is that I've set up REW following this tutorial:
where for example, he says to set the "input volume" to 0,530" so the reason my attempt failed the first time might be due to different default settings... I would need a video that not only goes over how to do the moving mic measurement, but also shows the basic setup of the program x_x
 

czt

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Setup and default 53% volume are the same, just the measurements done with pink periodic noise and the RTA (save with current) instead of sine sweep.
 
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