noob question about house curve

[ernestcarl]

First thing first, in the EQ tool from REW, should I have my flat line in the average point of the bass region or at the lowest trough, or somewhere inbetween?

I prefer to think of EQ as the last thing you use to optimize an already well measuring speaker(s) system and room — note that room and positioning is just as equally important. I also do not bother with any fixed target curve… any “modifiable” target curve can serve as a general guide or template. As a starting point, rather than force the speaker to fit a predefined curve, I’d try to first create a target curve “guide” that fits the speakers best.

 

[ernestcarl]

Does this sounds correct? Following this plan, there will be parts in which REW will need to apply -15dB corrections, is that ok?

-15dB is extreme. I’m not saying there is no use case for it… but maybe start half of that. Again, I would personally endeavour not to completely force-fit the response to fit a pre-defined “fixed” target shape downloaded from the net — or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Again, I would personally endeavour not to completely force-fit the response to fit a pre-defined “fixed” target shape downloaded from the net — or anywhere else for that matter.

This is in order to achieve a flat response in the bass region, which 2 people here suggested me to do

 

[ernestcarl]

This is in order to achieve a flat response in the bass region, which 2 people here suggested me to do

Yes, though, I don’t think they specified which target curve shape or fit to follow for a “flat” response.

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Yes, though, I don’t think they specified which target curve shape or fit to follow for a “flat” response.

my understanding was an horizontal line... because if not, I think people here is failing to realize they're explaining something to a beginner, so nothing should be taken as obvious, otherwise is no different than trolling me (even if not on purpose) x_x

 

[ernestcarl]

You can interpret my personal advice however you want. Someone with more experience may explain it far better than me: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...esponses-in-csv-txt-format.16401/post-1049959

 

[Rednaxela]

Here's a screen

FWIW, in this picture I think I would EQ the bass region to around 78dB. Also, I would only focus on the three or four biggest peaks, and leave all the valleys alone.

This will give you a relatively simple filter set that probably sounds already very effective. Because it cuts down the most intrusive bass frequencies, the overall result may sound a bit bass-light. You can counteract this with a low shelf filter. But as said, careful not to overdo this.

After this, you could further optimise by trying to correct some of the smaller valleys. Sometimes this is not possible, or not worth the power required. However in case it is, you may want to adjust your low shelf to compensate for the additional boost.

HTH.

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Maybe I should start from 0 again, meaning sliding the desk across the room and measuring every time, might be that for the current position I have focused too much on removing a certain peak or valley I had at certain frequencies and got into a position that is overall worse, I am not sure...
If I do that, should I do it measuring the monitors alone?
Or should I include the subwoofer?
The problem I see measuring altogether after I move the desk, is that the subwoofer can go in different places and have different phase settings so it adds many more variables...

 

[ernestcarl]

Maybe I should start from 0 again, meaning sliding the desk across the room and measuring every time, might be that for the current position I have focused too much on removing a certain peak or valley I had at certain frequencies and got into a position that is overall worse, I am not sure...
If I do that, should I do it measuring the monitors alone?
Or should I include the subwoofer?
The problem I see measuring altogether after I move the desk, is that the subwoofer can go in different places and have different phase settings so it adds many more variables...

Listening and/or measuring separately (the different possible speaker & listening positions) prior summing mains+sub is preferable esp. if you have the means to time-align manually with something like a miniDSP or t.racks DSP, for example.

After you've found the "best sounding" position in your room according to your own ears through listening -- that's also confirmed by measurements (never hurts to confirm with objective data, if you know how to read & interpret them) -- next task is finding the best xo and delay settings along with EQ. Here's just one possible example of how this may be done in REW:

Help me understand my REW measurements

Which method is the optimal or does it really not matter? What matters is to test at reasonable listening levels (around 70-80dBA at mic position), because you don’t want to fry your tweeters, and to be well above the background noise level (although sweeps are quite good at dealing with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Also maybe I should share more info about the room, just in case there is something horribly wrong to be spotted in it
So basically some months ago I had attempted to treat this room in a DIY fashion, my brother had some spare rockwool so I've made 6 acoustic panels, they are 120cm x 60cm x 16cm thick and they surround my listening position. There is also 6 smaller panels fitted into a narrow bookshelf in the far left corner trying to act as some sort of bass trap, and probably failing at it.
It looks like this:
everything orange except the curtain is those "acoustic panels"

this is the gap from the wall

The thing is, and maybe the problem of this, the material I've chosen to wrap them:

As you can see got two layers, the one on top fooled me into thinking sound would pass easily, but the one under it is actually pretty densely woven... unfortunately when I purchased it I wasn't aware that this would matter because noone told me and I hadn't done enough research, so I don't even know if these things are achieving anything positive =_=
I guess the the first step here is to measure the room with and without them.
The only problem is that the strip preventing them from falling forward is tied to the thing supporting them, so untie all those knots is just tedious, I'm thinking I will have to order online some hooks like these to affix to the end of the strips so that I can quickly hang/remove the panels therefore I can't do that measurements soon.
But anyway, I'm honestly surprised that all my measures looks like garbage after all of that, makes me think this panels are actually doing nothing useful despite 16cm of rockwool due to the material wrapping them...

This is the RT60 in the part of the room I am right now btw:

so maybe they are still helping with that, I think it actually looked better when I had the desk in a different position, but the "excessive" amount of panels could be the reason the range 150 - 500Hz is sinking like that into the 200m in the graph? Maybe I should try and remove 2 panels from the sides and see if that raises

Let me know if you guys have any thoughts on it

 

[ernestcarl]

As you can see got two layers, the one on top fooled me into thinking sound would pass easily, but the one under it is actually pretty densely woven... unfortunately when I purchased it I wasn't aware that this would matter because noone told me and I hadn't done enough research, so I don't even know if these things are achieving anything positive =_=

Broadband absorbers are supposed to be acoustically transparent. If you cannot breathe easily through the fabric layers, then that is probably why much of the decay reflection time in the mids and highs still look rather high relative to the bass -- though not really obviously horrible, mind you. Close to 400ms is just about what one would expect as default by the looks of the room size. Below 100Hz is more difficult to treat, so I expect the effect of your DIY (or purchased?) acoustic panels there to be minimal.

 

[Rednaxela]

Is this still about music enjoyment or are you trying to build yourself some sort of studio?

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Hey guys, did some measurements with the desk at different distances from the back wall, can you doublecheck them? (file attached below)
I think the one called "L+R 1.07m from wall" is the best one, do you agree?
Although the best RT60 is probably 1.37m from wall measurement

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Is this still about music enjoyment or are you trying to build yourself some sort of studio?

I'm a simple gamer xD This is only about music enjoyment, although I tend to fixate on things until I get them right lol

 

[Rednaxela]

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[Rednaxela]

Hey guys, did some measurements with the desk at different distances from the back wall, can you doublecheck them? (file attached below)
I think the one called "L+R 1.07m from wall" is the best one, do you agree?
Although the best RT60 is probably 1.37m from wall measurement

Any chance you can just post the screenshots here?

 

[Rednaxela]

How do you do your measurements by the way? Single point, multi-point, MMM, sweeps, pink noise?

 

[Marcus Aseth]

so the choice is between this 2 below.

How do you do your measurements by the way? Single point, multi-point, MMM, sweeps, pink noise?

microphone standing on the listening position, a single sweep mesurement from REW.

Ok guys, I've narrowed it down to this 2 charts below, the only difference is the Phase of the subwoofer, the cyan line is Phase 60° while the red line is Phase 90°

Which one do you think I should EQ on and why?
The 90° one is better on the 75Hz region but its dip at 94Hz is more pronounced, although narrower than the 60° dip... I wait you guys opinion before proceding

Also what do you think about the massive dip at 650Hz? That was present no matter where I put the desk, how bad is that? Can it be addressed?

 

[MCH]

Hey Markus, i sympathise with you because i was in your same situation (and probably still am) a couple of months ago and i know how it feels... too many new concepts....
I can not advice you about the technicalities but i would suggest you not to try to do everything to perfection in your first try, it can be very overwhelming.
The suggestion you were given to worry only about frequencies below 200-300 Hz and don't try to fill in dips is a recurring one, i would stick to it until you gain some more knowledge.
For the absorption panels, i am sure others can help you but what i understood after doing some reading was (please people correct me if i am wrong. Chances are that i am):
Bass traps in the corners start to be really effective only when there is a lot of absorver volume there. Doesn't seem to be your case.
If you are willing to use just a few panels, the best thing you can do is to place them at the points where the sound "reflects" from your speakers to the listening position. You can find these exact points with someone's help and a mirror. Front and back walls are usually not the first points to treat.
Last regarding your last two curves. I can imagine you are applying your xover at ca 75 Hz as if i remember well you are running your mains full signal and in your post 1 they decay at around that frequency. From the graph in your post 1 (without sub i guess) seems that the valley at 94hz belongs to your room. If all this is true, your cyan line looks better as the valley at 75 seems less deep. Again, please, seek others advice, i am as newbie as you, this is intended only to trigger the conversation.

Good luck with that mate, you will see how just a bit tame of the peaks at low frequencies makes a huge difference !!

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Ok guys, I've let REW EQ from 20 to 500 Hz, and this is what I got now:

Was the target I used to EQ too low? I was trying to minimize that abyss at 650Hz...
If this is ok, what should I do next? Should I have REW EQ the mountain between 1k and 2k?
Should I do a "manual" filter pass to make the bass region even flatter?
Or should I do it again with a higher target line?

So far it's using only 9 filters