NEWBIE - Am I deaf ?

[VintageFlanker]

LOL
I am pretty sure the word probably doesn't exist in english :-(

It definitely does.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Personal opinion/perception then. Not widely applicable.

Hi,

Yes.

Did I stated anywhere that I was giving something "objective" ?

I think that, quite the opposite, I insisted on the totally "subjective" side of my thread.

So we agree... sort of.

 

[Wombat]

Hi,

Yes.

Did I stated anywhere that I was giving something "objective" ?

I think that, quite the opposite, I insisted on the totally "subjective" side of my thread.

So we agree... sort of.

Then, I can't see the point of posting it on ASR as there are no useful controlled subjective test results for wider benefit.

 

[Koeitje]

Modern electronic music can be extremely clean with very good dynamics and a lot of things happening at the same time. I think the main advantage there is that the person/people making it are mixing it themselves.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Did I stated anywhere that I was giving something "objective" ?

I think that, quite the opposite, I insisted on the totally "subjective" side of my thread.

Sure thing. Still, over all subjective terms around, Musicality doesn't mean shit to me (or anyone, I guess)...

I may imagine how to represent some bright, warm, wide, tall, fast, flat, impactful, muddy etc sound. But Musicality, even from a subjective pov... Still trying to figure what that's supposed to mean... I simply can't.

 

[PenguinMusic]

I can't see the point of posting it on ASR.

Hi Wombat,

OK... Sorry if I expressed a POV that doesn't match with the sites purpose.

So this place is only about measures ?
And it does not admit other perspectvies ?

Then, if you read my message above, I am probably way out of line.
But if you read my messages, I am not forcing my views upon any reader of this thread.

I thought that Audio Science was, at least, partly there to reproduce music so we can enjoy listening to it.
It seems that I am totally wrong about this.

Sorry, but I will not apologize :-(

Regards.

 

[Wombat]

The site is not a vehicle for unfounded personal opinions although I am not so sure, lately.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Sure thing. Still, over all subjective terms around, Musicality doesn't mean shit to me (or anyone, I guess)...

I may imagine how to represent some bright, warm, wide, tall, fast, flat, impactful, muddy etc sound. But Musicality, even from a subjective pov... Still trying to figure what that's supposed to mean... I simply can't.

OK,

I can not define it myself... but maybe you've oversen the post where I say that.

It appears wee definitely have totally different approaches to music listening.
I will not force my views of doing it upon you.

So maybe we can agree to disagree, and leave it to that ?

Regards.

 

[PenguinMusic]

The site is not a vehicle for unfounded personal opinions although I am not so sure, lately. View attachment 45938

Music is nothing else than measures.

I like Pink Floyd.
How can you ? I measured it and it doesn't get even close to Daft Punk.

I'll take good notice of that.

Regards.

 

[VintageFlanker]

So this place is only about measures ?
And it does not admit other perspectvies ?

I'd say mostly about technical and scientific approach of sound reproduction...

...Still, I have no issue with subjective opinions if it is advertised as such.

The issue is when people are trying to put their subjective listening above datas, with: "measurements don't tell the whole story, use your ears... " and so on.

 

[PenguinMusic]

I'd say mostly about technical and scientific approach of sound reproduction...

...Still, I have no issue with subjective opinions if it is advertised as such.

The issue is when people are trying to put their subjective listening above datas, with: "measurements don't tell the whole story, use your ears... " and so on.

Hi,

Can you point the thread or post where I did so ?
Because I do not think I did.
But maybe something I wrote has been poorly expressed (english isn't my native tongue) and misunderstood...

But if I get you right, one can not write "I prefer the sound coming out of the device that has not the best mesurements" ?

If I read Armin's tests, he makes measures and then listening tests.
He sometimes admits himself that the listening test is not "on par" with what he expected from the measurements.

What about doing it the other way round ?
First : listening test and write down : "Here's what I think the specs will be : good, bad / bump in bass/mids/treble".
Then measures to confirm that impression ?

I am pretty sure that would also be quite fun...
But I already know what the answer will be : "The test should be made with sound level set to a standard" and things like that.

 

[Wombat]

Post #10, Musicality.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Post #10, Musicality.

Hum...

Is that so ?

Is that a post where I say something else than : the sound is better, still I don't like it ?
Is that a post where I say something else than : I am expressing a purely subjective POV ?

Am I not saying the exact opposite ? That the sound is indeed better... but that I feel like it lacks something that the original recording had even though I could not say what it is ?

If so, I indeed was not able to express myself correctly. And for that, I am ready to apologize...

 

[solderdude]

I am probably deaf or old fashioned... or just an addicted stupid "analog" dude...
And I admit it is probably a matter of tastes and totally subjective !

It does not seem you are deaf.

Taste/preference is something personal and is not possible to put in graphs/numbers. Don't worry about it.
Taste/preference is not a universal truth either. Even though what we perceive is what one considers 'real' it often isn't.
It is an interpretation of the brain depending on sound waves hitting the body and ears.
Each person can have different associations, experiences, emotions when listening to music.
We could like it or not.

ASR used to be more about how electronic (and now also speakers) measure and perform.
That does not mean people perceive something how it measures because of taste/preference/experience/masking done by speakers/rooms.

So one is welcome to say what they like and prefer but when someone says this or that DAC sounds better (less so with amps) then one could be asked if the comparisons were tested in a certain way (blind, truly level matched). Otherwise it is meaningless.
For speakers and headphones things are different and one can easily say something sounds better to them in this or that setting.
preference, taste, music choice, recording quality, used gear.

So enjoy ASR for what it is: measurement oriented reviews and discussions of them.

 

[Wombat]

Hum...

Is that so ?

Is that a post where I say something else than : the sound is better, still I don't like it ?
Is that a post where I say something else than : I am expressing a purely subjective POV ?

Am I not saying the exact opposite ? That the sound is indeed better... but that I feel like it lacks something that the original recording had even though I could not say what it is ?

If so, I indeed was not able to express myself correctly. And for that, I am ready to apologize...

Clear communication is important.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Hi solderdude,

Thanks for your reply.
As usual (from what I have seen so far : I am a "baby (90 posts compared to you (3700 posts), it seems we have rather close views on things...

And I must say that I perfectly agree with your signature
Where it states "Use your ears to listen to music not as an analyzer".

That's what I think I do. Hope I am entitled to tell so

 

[PenguinMusic]

Clear communication is important.

Hi Wombat,

Just paid attention to your signature.

And that is exactly my thing about musicality.
I can't describe it simply for sure.
And I perfectly agree/admit that I do not understand it well.

Some in here may like Bruce Sprinsteen.
He was invited to a show called "Storytellers".
The guest plays his songs and explains them.
So Bruce went and played one of his songs and then explained it... Litterally. Word by word.
After 2 or 3 minutes of that exercice he said "How much did I thought about this when I wrote the song ? None of it... How much did I feel about this when I wrote the song ? All of it".

The same goes for me.
Why do I like Fisher's Beethoven 7th more than other 7th ?
I won't be able to explain... just to feel it.

Note science for sure :-( Sorry...
But I claim to not have atechnical view... And I am not ashamed of it.
What I am looking for here (not in this thread though) is : "Is there an explanation to what I hear"...
And that, I mostly get

 

[Wombat]

I believe ASR is about known science and expanding that understanding further in terms of physical performance. It is also similarly interested in subjective perceptions.

However, credence is given to valid test processes, in those areas, that produce valid repeatable results.

Individual, undefined and unsupported opinions and preferences are audio fog in this respect.

I like many here have personal opinions, perceptions and druthers but unless I can verify them as factually relevant to others, publicly posting them here is just ego-stroking. Many of us came to ASR to get away from fuzzy views. Maybe you are deaf.

 

[PenguinMusic]

I believe ASR is about known science and expanding that understanding further in terms of physical performance. It is also similarly interested in subjective perceptions.

However, credence is given to valid test processes, in those areas, that produce valid repeatable results.

Individual, undefined and unsupported opinions and preferences are audio fog in this respect.

I like many here have personal opinions, perceptions and druthers but unless I can verify them as factually relevant to others, publicly posting them here is just ego-stroking. Many of us came to ASR to get away from fuzzy views. Maybe you are deaf.

Hi,

Due note taken...

I will not expand any further on this.
It seems totally pointless :-(
My fault.

Regards.

 

[solderdude]

What I am looking for here (not in this thread though) is : "Is there an explanation to what I hear"...

When measurements are quite poor there could be a relation to what you hear.
When listening to music there could be an explanation for what you hear but would depend on:
A: recording quality
B: experience with 'listening'
C: audible aspects due to transducers/room/positioning or headphone
D: depending on electrical fidelity of the used electronics and/or combination with the transducers.
E: taste, preference.

An exact explanation for what you hear and see in plots of electronic equipment and what you hear there will not be.
Some poor performing equipment will be revealed using measurements and good performing ones will be confirmed by measurements.
This does not mean it will always translate to higher or lower perceived sound quality because of the above mentioned points.
Not because not all things can be measured (yet) but simply because humans are simply like that.

That's how the cookie crumbles.