New Schiit SYN - Analog Surround Sound Processor

[UltimateAK]

The SYN is excellent for my purpose. I have a second one on order.

For a PC / console setup, it's a do-all device with it's pre-outs and a USB-C based DAC built in, optical input to feed from my OLED TV that has my consoles connected to it. It creates a beautiful spacious sound on my Sundara and Focal Clear's. Really impressed with how it can take headphones with a compressed sound stage and "widen" them out to the extent that music feels notably more spacious and 3D. I've only started experimenting today with running audio from the pre-outs to my Aegir and Rekkr's for psuedo-surround sound and so far it works excellently for music to fill in the space with reverb and background acoustics, as it should. Excited to try gaming.

Also, that motorized volume is a nice touch on a box this compact.

I enjoy this little box so much I had to drop in to comment.

 

[EJ3]

They can do more things but as far as I can tell none of them offer the mixing that it does. You may feel it's inferior to Dolby, DTS, or other up-mixers, but if you want the more basic up-mixing that the Syn does, it's a tidy little package. If there's an old cheap receiver or pre-amp out there that does basic L+R and L-R mixing please let me know. I might want to try it out.

What happens when you use L>R & R<L controls on an APT/Holman Preamplifier

Apt Holman Preamplifier​

Stereo Mode Controls

Leave the MODE knob in the middle at STEREO, and leave the L > R and R > L switches down for normal stereo.

For mono, turn the knob to the left. The left-side of the control slowly narrows the image from stereo into mono. Controls like this were popular in the 1960s because people, used to mono, were sometimes uncomfortable with the full stereo effect.

Turning the knob to the right expands the stereo image. It mostly just sucks out the center of the image.

The L > R and R > L switches select what input channels go to what output channels.

Here's what they do:

L > R	R > L
down	down	Normal Stereo
UP	down	Left channel input heard as mono in both output channels
down	UP	Right channel input heard as mono in both output channels
UP	UP	Reversed Stereo

If you'd like more detail, Tom ran out of panel space to label these more clearly as MONITOR INPUT SELECT RIGHT and MONITOR INPUT SELECT LEFT, which is what they're really doing.

If you lift the L > R switch, it puts the left channel into the right channel. The left channel remains in the left channel. You now are listening to the left channel (in mono of course) in both channels.

Lifting the R > L switch does the same thing, playing the right channel in both channels.

Lifting both switches at the same time simply flips the channels: left goes to right, and right goes to left.

These two switches allow the six line-level stereo inputs (including the tape and EPL loops) as up to twelve discrete mono inputs! This feature was popular in the 1960s, when mono tuners, phonographs and tape decks had but one output connector.

 

[Tim Link]

What happens when you use L>R & R<L controls on an APT/Holman Preamplifier

Apt Holman Preamplifier​

Stereo Mode Controls

Leave the MODE knob in the middle at STEREO, and leave the L > R and R > L switches down for normal stereo.

For mono, turn the knob to the left. The left-side of the control slowly narrows the image from stereo into mono. Controls like this were popular in the 1960s because people, used to mono, were sometimes uncomfortable with the full stereo effect.

Turning the knob to the right expands the stereo image. It mostly just sucks out the center of the image.

The L > R and R > L switches select what input channels go to what output channels.

Here's what they do:

L > R	R > L
down	down	Normal Stereo
UP	down	Left channel input heard as mono in both output channels
down	UP	Right channel input heard as mono in both output channels
UP	UP	Reversed Stereo

If you'd like more detail, Tom ran out of panel space to label these more clearly as MONITOR INPUT SELECT RIGHT and MONITOR INPUT SELECT LEFT, which is what they're really doing.

If you lift the L > R switch, it puts the left channel into the right channel. The left channel remains in the left channel. You now are listening to the left channel (in mono of course) in both channels.

Lifting the R > L switch does the same thing, playing the right channel in both channels.

Lifting both switches at the same time simply flips the channels: left goes to right, and right goes to left.

These two switches allow the six line-level stereo inputs (including the tape and EPL loops) as up to twelve discrete mono inputs! This feature was popular in the 1960s, when mono tuners, phonographs and tape decks had but one output connector.

Thank you! I'd not heard of this pre-amp. I might just have to track one down and give it a try.

 

[EJ3]

Thank you! I'd not heard of this pre-amp. I might just have to track one down and give it a try.

There is a review of one of my 2 here:

Apt Holman Preamplifier Review (vintage Audio)​

Something else you can do if you have 2 of them (like I do)):
Quadraphonic Synthesis

With two Holman Preamplifiers, you can synthesis and control four output channels from just two input channels.

Apply all your inputs to the first Holman Preamplifier. Use it for all your tone controls, filters and source and tape selections. Leave its Stereo Mode in Stereo.

Connect the first Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 1 output to one power amplifier and your two front speakers.

Connect the first Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 2 output to any line-level input of the second Holman Preamplifier.

Connect the second Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 1 output to the power amplifier for your two rear speakers.

Rotate the second Holman Preamplifier's stereo mode control to L-R, and start by setting it to about unity gain or a bit less, and keep its tone controls flat. The tone and filter settings of the first Holman Preamplifier are fed automatically to the second Holman Preamplifier.

Set balance on the first preamp. Set front-rear balance on the Volume control of the second preamp.

Leave the power switch of the second preamp ON, and plug its power cord into a switched outlet of the first Holman Preamplifier. Now the power is controlled by the first Holman Preamplifier, too.

 

[Abe_W]

I am really enjoying this Syn for 'upmixing' my stereo sources to multichannel music thus far. Your mileage may vary depending on the speakers you have. My speakers throw a big tall soundfield to begin with, which makes me not miss the height channels and my atmos processor too much. However, the object based codecs seem to beat it out for me. There is a level of surreal reality from Atmos that it is unable to replicate. I will be moving the Syn to a secondary system upstairs. For 400 dollars, it seems a very good deal for guys who don't want to spend too much on atmos processors that are 3000 dollars and up.

Soundfield width and presence control seem to be extremely useful features to tailor multichannel music listening.

EDIT: Perceivable detail from its built-in DAC is a bit lacking. I get more detail and better results by running the analog output from a Marantz HD-DAC1 into this processor.

 

[ThatGuyYouKnow]

For a PC / console setup, it's a do-all device with it's pre-outs and a USB-C based DAC built in, optical input to feed from my OLED TV that has my consoles connected to it. It creates a beautiful spacious sound on my Sundara and Focal Clear's. Really impressed with how it can take headphones with a compressed sound stage and "widen" them out to the extent that music feels notably more spacious and 3D. I've only started experimenting today with running audio from the pre-outs to my Aegir and Rekkr's for psuedo-surround sound and so far it works excellently for music to fill in the space with reverb and background acoustics, as it should. Excited to try gaming.

The only concern I would have with gaming is that a lot of PC/console games support 3D audio, so just sending the stereo signal as is creates a convincing sense of positional accuracy all around. Does the SYN's processing hurt that accuracy?

 

[Abe_W]

The only concern I would have with gaming is that a lot of PC/console games support 3D audio, so just sending the stereo signal as is creates a convincing sense of positional accuracy all around. Does the SYN's processing hurt that accuracy?

If a movie, music album came with a native atmos mix or a game supports native atmos or other object based codecs, it makes all sense to use such a 3D object based processor instead. Ime thus far, the SYN seems like a very good affordable option to upmix stereo music sources into multichannel. It has some similarities to what can be experienced with the Auromatic upmixer from a higher end prepro on stereo mixes.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

The only concern I would have with gaming is that a lot of PC/console games support 3D audio, so just sending the stereo signal as is creates a convincing sense of positional accuracy all around. Does the SYN's processing hurt that accuracy?

Since it's creating fake surround from two signals you are not getting the sound that the game sound designer intended.

 

[EJ3]

The only concern I would have with gaming is that a lot of PC/console games support 3D audio, so just sending the stereo signal as is creates a convincing sense of positional accuracy all around. Does the SYN's processing hurt that accuracy?

I would suggest that this use would be outside of it's use case. And that a proper object based processor should be used.

 

[madbrayniak]

Man this thread is full of some very colorful opinions!

I also find comments like "fake surround" interesting as well. Since when has any surround sound been "real" you are watching a movie on a flat screen and having sound all around you-FAR from "real".

Also, does no one here seem to understand that Dolby Prologic II and DTS Neo did pretty much the same or very similar thing but just with a licensed format?

You know, the licensed formats that are constantly becoming obsolete so that they can encourage you to buy yet another new AVR/Processor.

I like this simply because I am at a point where I would prefer to buy something once and just have it work for a really really long time. Sure I might not getting max performance but if I am 90% there and I spend far less in the long run I would be really happy.

Now I am not looking to buy this-it looks fun to play with but I live in a small 950sqft house built in 1954. I don't think I am going to bother trying to fit surround sound in my small family room. That said, if I was going to try to do it I think I would be looking at this as you can get this, maybe a higher quality dac than what is built into it and maybe a miniDSP for room correction and you have one hell of a setup.

 

[mhardy6647]

Also, does no one here seem to understand that Dolby Prologic II and DTS Neo did pretty much the same or very similar thing but just with a licensed format?

If it weren't for the fact that some folks recognize the almost laughably non-innovative nature of this product, this thread would probably have only been 3 or 4 posts long!

 

[Tim Link]

Also, does no one here seem to understand that Dolby Prologic II and DTS Neo did pretty much the same or very similar thing but just with a licensed format?

They're quite a bit different than what this Syn is doing from what I can tell. Pro Logic II (and I think DTS Neo) seems to be able to isolate center panned sounds from side panned sounds, and send only the center panned sounds to the center speaker. This involves more complex steering filters than the simple channel summing and subtracting that the Syn does. I think I understand how the Syn works. I do not fully understand how Pro Logic II does the steering.

 

[madbrayniak]

If it weren't for the fact that some folks recognize the almost laughably non-innovative nature of this product, this thread would probably have only been 3 or 4 posts long!

No it’s not very innovative-overall it’s old tech. But does it provide a solution? I think so.

 

[madbrayniak]

They're quite a bit different than what this Syn is doing from what I can tell. Pro Logic II (and I think DTS Neo) seems to be able to isolate center panned sounds from side panned sounds, and send only the center panned sounds to the center speaker. This involves more complex steering filters than the simple channel summing and subtracting that the Syn does. I think I understand how the Syn works. I do not fully understand how Pro Logic II does the steering.

Jim Fosgate invented Dolby Prologic II using a tube based system that he cooked up at home.

I’m sure they aren’t the same but it is still taking a stereo source and then changing it into surround.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

No it’s not very innovative-overall it’s old tech. But does it provide a solution? I think so.

A solution to what exactly? This is a cut down featureless AVR preamp from the 2000's.
It doesn't solve anything. It's not a solution to surround formats because every. single. AVR. regardless of price and since the 2000's can do what this can and much more.

Its only feature is being small.

 

[madbrayniak]

A solution to what exactly? This is a cut down featureless AVR preamp from the 2000's.
It doesn't solve anything. It's not a solution to surround formats because every. single. AVR. regardless of price and since the 2000's can do what this can and much more.

Its only feature is being small.

It’s small-it’s free from constant updates to HDMI-it integrates well with vintage systems-it allows a bit more customization as I alluded to earlier with being able to connect some MiniDSP Dirac or other room correction suites-you can use a higher quality DAC(isnt that a huge complaint here with AVRs)

If you don’t agree with me that’s fine I’m not here to force you to see my way-but I don’t have to see it yours either.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

It’s small-it’s free from constant updates to HDMI-it integrates well with vintage systems-it allows a bit more customization as I alluded to earlier with being able to connect some MiniDSP Dirac or other room correction suites-you can use a higher quality DAC(isnt that a huge complaint here with AVRs)

If you don’t agree with me that’s fine I’m not here to force you to see my way-but I don’t have to see it yours either.

What are those constant upgrades you're talking about?

Why does this integrate better?

Can't you use minidsp with an AVR?

 

[madbrayniak]

What are those constant upgrades you're talking about?

Why does this integrate better?

Can't you use minidsp with an AVR?

There have been 10 versions of HDMI

It integrates better simply because of size and you can have your stereo preout from something like my Sansui Eight go into it and then make whatever connections you want from there.

Sure you can do a lot of this with an AVR-never said you couldn’t. But a lot of us don’t have room for an AVR to go along with our stereo components.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

There have been 10 versions of HDMI

It integrates better simply because of size and you can have your stereo preout from something like my Sansui Eight go into it and then make whatever connections you want from there.

Sure you can do a lot of this with an AVR-never said you couldn’t. But a lot of us don’t have room for an AVR to go along with our stereo components.

So we are back to that the small size is its only feature.

 

[madbrayniak]

So we are back to that the small size is its only feature.

No-but you do you