New mysterious Genelec monitors

[Pearljam5000]

An hilarious video of someone drilling holes in a brand new pair of very expensive ATCs so he could soffit mount them
It's insane how much effort and money goes into soffit mounting

 

[tmtomh]

What’s the self noise of these?
Keith

Here's a screenshot from the Genelec.com spec page for the 8351b with the relevant part circled in red:

Here's the same for the 8381a:

Um...

The online brochure for the 8381a has an otherwise full set of specs, but still no self-noise spec that I could find.

Maybe the full user manual has the figure?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Here's a screenshot from the Genelec.com spec page for the 8351b with the relevant part circled in red:

View attachment 304071

Here's the same for the 8381a:


Um...

The online brochure for the 8381a has an otherwise full set of specs, but still no self-noise spec that I could find.

Maybe the full user manual has the figure?

I asked them for the operating manual but it's not available yet

 

[Pekka Perämoottori]

Soffit mounting is a thing of the past or just for some hardcore studios
This gives you more freedom
Especially if you buy them for home use (not that many will, but still )

What?


Not at all. Soffit mounting is the only option for true *)high end speaker installation. In the past, now, and in the future. Physics behind it do not change among fashion. Speaker tech can never fully compensate it, only steer a little towards it.

Soffit install (or Genelec 8381) is definitely not for home or basic half-ass -studios common option, but true high end audio rooms feature. Its not coincidence why soffit has, and will be, seen in the most highest end mastering suites, post production houses, broadcasting companies and other flagship -tier audio rooms.


And yes, of course soffit is hardcore. But this speaker is very hardcore too. Installation should be accordingly. Not soffiting them leaves deliberate room for reflections. Which could be avoided using soffit.

It´s of course great that 8381 has enhanced performance in free reflecting (standing) use too, but actual high end install still requires soffit.

Its quite weird in my opinion to be able to shell almost 100000 € to speaker pair, but only be able to install them like typical half-ass family living room -installer.

But well... off course if moneys are absolutely finito after buying 8381´s: whole studio + kids + mother in laws kidneys fully mortgaged, wife sells herself on street already... absolutely no money left for little incidental acoustical renovations... so no soffit in that case then.




*) Mac + audio interface + 2 acu-panels from Thomann in bedroom corner / some conference room -looking "studio" is not high end speaker installation. High end by definition is not something common, easy to achieve, or even cheap.

 

[Pekka Perämoottori]

I don't really get the point of soffit mounting.

Soffit eliminates one reflecting wall, the front wall behind the speakers, completely from the reflection management -equation. As a result it significantly smoothens out speakers response from bass onwards and further smoothens i.e. removes difraction zig-zags from speakers own upper end response. It can also give increased acoustical loading i.e. up to +6dB additional SPL-firepower to bass end, completely free, if install wall is properly rigid.

Soffit is tried, tested and true winner solution to install speaker in a room, if it only is feasible.



Genelec 8381´s great enhanced vertical directivity and other advanced acoustical properties goes partially off, if its basic position in the room is not soffited. It becomes a compromise to begin with, that is. Although Genelec´s new electro-acoustical tech is striving to achieve soffit -style benefits in free standing positioning, it can only approach it, not catch completely.

These two (soffit + Genelecs new speaker tech) should be combined to achieve the best results. I.e. Genelec to offer fully soffitable version of 8381, like its preceding 12xx Master Series -siblings.



Of course 8381 can somehow be soffited already in "pants off" / half soffit -way (bottom woofers + reflex in the back free, other parts of the enclosure on soffit), but thats a compromise too.

Yes you can better see through the recording room window but having the L/R up so high doesn't look optimal to me

Soffit can be done in same installation height than any free reflecting speaker positioning.

 

[Pearljam5000]

What?


Not at all. Soffit mounting is the only option for true *)high end speaker installation. In the past, now, and in the future. Physics behind it do not change among fashion. Speaker tech can never fully compensate it, only steer a little towards it.

Soffit install (or Genelec 8381) is definitely not for home or basic half-ass -studios common option, but true high end audio rooms feature. Its not coincidence why soffit has, and will be, seen in the most highest end mastering suites, post production houses, broadcasting companies and other flagship -tier audio rooms.


And yes, of course soffit is hardcore. But this speaker is very hardcore too. Installation should be accordingly. Not soffiting them leaves deliberate room for reflections. Which could be avoided using soffit.

It´s of course great that 8381 has enhanced performance in free reflecting (standing) use too, but actual high end install still requires soffit.

Its quite weird in my opinion to be able to shell almost 100000 € to speaker pair, but only be able to install them like typical half-ass family living room -installer.

But well... off course if moneys are absolutely finito after buying 8381´s: whole studio + kids + mother in laws kidneys fully mortgaged, wife sells herself on street already... absolutely no money left for little incidental acoustical renovations... so no soffit in that case then.




*) Mac + audio interface + 2 acu-panels from Thomann in bedroom corner / some conference room -looking "studio" is not high end speaker installation. High end by definition is not something common, easy to achieve, or even cheap.

Not all people want or need or can afford soffit mounting
It's a pain to build or pay for.
Genelec knows what they're doing they already have other main monitors for soffit mounting but there's a demand / need for main monitor without the soffit mounting pain .
Some compromise is worth it for the ease of it.
Not to mention much more flexibility , you're not chained to a certain room or location in a room .

 

[Pekka Perämoottori]

Not all people want or need or can afford soffit mounting
It's a pain to build or pay for.
Genelec knows what they're doing they already have other main monitors for soffit mounting but there's a demand / need for main monitor without the soffit mounting pain .
Some compromise is worth it for the ease of it.
Not to mention much more flexibility , you're not chained to a certain room or location in a room .

Thats very right, but 100000 €/ pair pro high end -speaker buyers definitely should.

This has vertical directivity no other 12xx Master Series older sibling has. Its a crying shame if a penalty shot from other reflections (due to leaving it free standing) bangs to installers ass on same time, when trying to net it into use.


Genelec 8381 is a true High End speaker and should be able to be also installed like one, if required. Its new enhanced free standing properties are a good plus, but real high end installation still requires those old school install methods. Which currently are not completely supported.


P.S. You are talking about this subject like about some Tannoy Mercury etc. basic crap speaker in the family living rooms TV-shelf.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thats very right, but 100000 €/ pair pro high end -speaker buyers definitely should.

This has vertical directivity no other 12xx Master Series older sibling has. Its a crying shame if a penalty shot from other reflections (due to leaving it free standing) bangs to installers ass on same time, when trying to net it into use.


Genelec 8381 is a true High End speaker and should be able to be also installed like one, if required. Its new enhanced free standing properties are a good plus, but real high end installation still requires those old school install methods. Which currently are not completely supported.


P.S. You are talking about this subject like about some Tannoy Mercury etc. basic crap speaker in the family living rooms TV-shelf.

Head over to some other hi end audio forums where speakers cost $500,000 and the cables cost more than the 8381 itself.
Besides maybe 1% of audiophiles soffit mount

 

[juliangst]

Soffit eliminates one reflecting wall, the front wall behind the speakers, completely from the reflection management -equation. As a result it significantly smoothens out speakers response from bass onwards and further smoothens i.e. removes difraction zig-zags from speakers own upper end response. It can also give increased acoustical loading i.e. up to +6dB additional SPL-firepower to bass end, completely free, if install wall is properly rigid.

The entire point of the 8381 is their ability to have constant directivity due to the cardiod dispersion.
They're designed this way to get the advantages of soffit speakers (reducing SBIR effects) while being a lot easier to install

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thats very right, but 100000 €/ pair pro high end -speaker buyers definitely should.

This has vertical directivity no other 12xx Master Series older sibling has. Its a crying shame if a penalty shot from other reflections (due to leaving it free standing) bangs to installers ass on same time, when trying to net it into use.


Genelec 8381 is a true High End speaker and should be able to be also installed like one, if required. Its new enhanced free standing properties are a good plus, but real high end installation still requires those old school install methods. Which currently are not completely supported.


P.S. You are talking about this subject like about some Tannoy Mercury etc. basic crap speaker in the family living rooms TV-shelf.

As you can see it's possible to use the big Genelecs without soffit mount

 

[Pekka Perämoottori]

The entire point of the 8381 is their ability to have constant directivity due to the cardiod dispersion.
They're designed this way to get the advantages of soffit speakers (reducing SBIR effects) while being a lot easier to install

Yes, this is made for severe off-limits -installers with insane budget. Like W371 + topping One´s larger, integrated brother.

As a fact still remains: in free standing operation it can only approach of proper soffit results. Not reach. Even with those great enhanced radiation properties.


Hopefully Gene brings 8381´s tech to its properly soffitable line-up too.

 

[Pekka Perämoottori]

As you can see it's possible to use the big Genelecs without soffit mount

Well, if some fools in internet have taken pictures of themself posing with large Genelecs in some very compromised/ridiculous -looking audio premises, means only that

Spoiler: Spoiler

some fools in internet have taken pictures of themself posing with large Genelecs in some very compromised/ridiculous -looking audio premises

Soffit install benefits doesn´t regard Genelec especially, but in practice all box speakers in the world. About 99% of speaker installations of the world are either bad, worse or worst -tier. Sound quality -wise most speaker users should not use speakers at all, but only headphones.

 

[Curvature]

As a fact still remains: in free standing operation it can only approach of proper soffit results. Not reach. Even with those great enhanced radiation properties.

So do you have any evidence? Like measurements.

 

[juliangst]

What specific problems other than SBIR do soffit mount speakers solve?
You can easliy deal with front wall SBIR effects with placement, absorption, crossing them over to subs or a combination of those three.

I'd rather want a normal speaker on ear level than some soffit mount monitor way too high and tilted down.

 

[Curvature]

What specific problems other than SBIR do soffit mount speakers solve?

They can produce a consistent wavefront at all frequencies. Sort of constant directivity. In reality most designs are compromised in one form or another.

For reasons aligned with current acoustical theory, they are preferred in a lot of studio designs. Despite that, a lot of engineers use a second set of speakers just in front of the mixing console instead of the soffit mounted mains.

 

[Curvature]

You can easliy deal with front wall SBIR effects with placement, absorption, crossing them over to subs or a combination of those three.

From experience, SBIR is not at all easy to address without significant planning and other tradeoffs.

 

[tmtomh]

Dumb question time: how do you soffit mount speakers that have side-firing woofers like the 8381s?

 

[Curvature]

Dumb question time: how do you soffit mount speakers that have side-firing woofers like the 8381s?

Just the top section, not the bottom one, could be soffited.

 

[tmtomh]

Just the top section, not the bottom one, could be soffited.

Thanks! That's what I figured, but it's nice to get confirmation that I haven't lost my marbles.

 

[Curvature]

ama

Thanks! That's what I figured, but it's nice to get confirmation that I haven't lost my marbles.

I doubt Genelec would sell them seperately, but maybe someone would buy the whole thing for just that purpose and figure out the setup. Would be a shame to have a useless bottom section. Maybe a side table at the studio?