New mysterious Genelec monitors

[bodhi]

What did you track them with?
There are no phone apps reporting peaks for example,they only report max which is close to what you say (depending the music of course).
REW is a good way (that's what you saw in the post above) or a good real SPL meter which can report peaks.

Peaks are not only low,are also in highs too,some cymbals for example can cause big peaks (of course the recording is a factor but still... )

Decibel X reports max or peak. I "calibrated" it with REW so it's good enough for me. I'll run the same tests with REW later, but I don't think the result is that different.

I really don't think that this lack of dynamics is a real problem with vast majority of hobbyists. But then again, for those who see it as important and have the money the 8381 might be one solution.

 

[onion]

With constant directivity speakers like the W371 or the Beolab 50 it would be really nice to see some in room measurements too (with the different modes and build in room correction on and off).

I also think that people will benefit a lot more from constant directivity and sophisticated room correction than from having the most flat and linear frequency response

I'll get round to doing some measurements with REW in August. On GLM in my room, the constant directivity mode appears to deliver the flattest linear frequency response.

 

[dasdoing]

That's true. As for myself, I tracked a few songs I listen to and the peaks are mostly +10dB (C). The average SPL for me is 70-80 dB so I couldn't tell I don't have that dynamic speakers anyway.

Although I'm not sure I would pick up distortion in a few short peaks in the lower frequencies even if I they existed.

What did you track them with?
There are no phone apps reporting peaks for example,they only report max which is close to what you say (depending the music of course).
REW is a good way (that's what you saw in the post above) or a good real SPL meter which can report peaks.

Peaks are not only low,are also in highs too,some cymbals for example can cause big peaks (of course the recording is a factor but still... )

there might be 2, or even 3 problems with this:

1) Erin showed that most if not all speakers show dynamic compression close to their SPL limit

2) the mic could be compressing/distorting at those peaks.


BUT, if we meassure the average SPL at LP we can just look at the file how much above average the peaks are.

whatever, me and others are and have been hearing subjectivly more realistic transients with systems with high amount of headroom. unfortunately it's still unclear how we can meassure transient behaviour of a speaker....at least there is no standard for this

 

[Sokel]

there might be 2, or even 3 problems with this:

1) Erin showed that most if not all speakers show dynamic compression close to their SPL limit

2) the mic could be compressing/distorting at those peaks.


BUT, if we meassure the average SPL at LP we can just look at the file how much above average the peaks are.

whatever, me and others are and have been hearing subjectivly more realistic transients with systems with high amount of headroom. unfortunately it's still unclear how we can meassure transient behaviour of a speaker....at least there is no standard for this

Subjectively as you say,I think this wow factor big horns have is exactly about this.
It's not level that makes them go instantly scary,is that ability to deliver even when playing average levels.

I don't know,I have big speakers,big room,I'm feeding them kilowatts but they don't have the horns thing.
I have never heard normal speakers,no matter how big (and I have heard big) playing like the big horns (and I also mean big).

I may be wrong,totally subjective experiences.

 

[dasdoing]

Subjectively as you say,I think this wow factor big horns have is exactly about this.
It's not level that makes them go instantly scary,is that ability to deliver even when playing average levels.

are big horns necessary for this? or is a small compression driver enough? I think this is all in the midrange. When I got my PA speakers (side-fillers) with compression drivers I couldn't believe how much more "alive" they sound

I don't know,I have big speakers,big room,I'm feeding them kilowatts but they don't have the horns thing.
I have never heard normal speakers,no matter how big (and I have heard big) playing like the big horns (and I also mean big).

I personally never heard high SPL systems that doesn't have compression drivers, but I have been seeing Amir talk about "impressive dynamics" in the subjective part of his reviews of big non-horn speakers. And I have never seen him coment especificly about horn-sound in the subjective part of his reviews of speakers with compression drivers.
I don't think he ever explained what "impressive dynamics" would be objectivly.
I think the possibility to deliver the full (uncompressed) amplitude of the peak is the main factor. A horn is probably not necessary, though it obviously is much easier to achieve with them. weaker systems could also possibly smearing out peaks in the time domain, even if they don't compress in the amplitude.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is there any chance the 8381 could come close to sounding as good as Magico M6 /M9?

 

[juliangst]

View attachment 301564
Is there any chance the 8381 could come close to sounding as good as Magico M6 /M9?

all the Magicos offer over other state of the art speakers are their large bass drivers imho. They might measure well but the price to performance is as awful as it gets.

Not sure if the 8361 will have the same bass output but you could certainly get the 8361 with some 32 inch subwoofers and still be below the Magicos MSRP and get perfect frequency response and insane bass at high spl.

 

[Curvature]

View attachment 301564
Is there any chance the 8381 could come close to sounding as good as Magico M6 /M9?

Why do you assume the Magicos are better?

 

[Axo1989]

all the Magicos offer over other state of the art speakers are their large bass drivers imho. They might measure well but the price to performance is as awful as it gets.

Not sure if the 8361 will have the same bass output but you could certainly get the 8361 with some 32 inch subwoofers and still be below the Magicos MSRP and get perfect frequency response and insane bass at high spl.

I'd argue both those Magico models are Veblen goods, so very high price is a feature not a bug.

The 8361 (or did you mean 8381?) plus very large sub boxen would be more cost-effective obviously, but I'd also prefer not to have to look at them.

 

[juliangst]

I'd argue both those Magico models are Veblen goods, so very high price is a feature not a bug.

The 8361 (or did you mean 8381?) plus very large sub boxen would be more cost-effective obviously, but I'd also prefer not to have to look at them.

Yes I meant 8381

 

[Pearljam5000]

Yes I meant 8381

Are you getting a pair ?

 

[juliangst]

Are you getting a pair ?

I wouldn't even get a pair if I had a billion on my bank account

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wouldn't even get a pair if I had a billion on my bank account

Lol
Why

 

[juliangst]

Lol
Why

Just look at them.
If I had that kind of money I would just go for Beolab 90

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just look at them.
If I had that kind of money I would just go for Beolab 90

Lol I like their industrial look
and don't like the Beolabs that look some fancy oligarch speakers
I'd agree something like Magico design would be better , but they are tools .

 

[juliangst]

I really like that the design of the Beolab 90 can work in both industrial and modern/ bright looking rooms

 

[Pearljam5000]

I really like that the design of the Beolab 90 can work in both industrial and modern/ bright looking rooms

Why do you need 7 tweeters ?

 

[juliangst]

Why do you need 7 tweeters ?

Variable beam width

 

[Pearljam5000]

Variable beam width

I don't know they feel kind of gimmicky to me
I mean they would never be used as studio monitor as opposed to the 8381

 

[juliangst]

I don't know they feel kind of gimmicky to me
I mean they would never be used as studio monitor as opposed to the 8381

They also have way better room correction than Genelec. It uses anti sound to cancel reflections like Dirac ART does.