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New KEF LS50 collection with new Metamaterial Absorption Technology (MAT) coming.

mhardy6647

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OK, this metamaterials thing got me goin'. :)

Was the dual-density particle board used by Altec for, e.g., the Model Fourteen loudspeaker cabinet, a metamaterial?
1605272582354.png

https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audiophile-equipment-reviews/altec-lansing-model-14/

Maybe they got the technology from space aliens, eh? ;)

page5.jpg
page5.jpg
1605272819326.png

source: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/specs/home-speakers/model-14.htm

OK, I'll stop now -- just grumpy today. ;)
 

Xyrium

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Altec really knew how to fit a microwave oven on top of a woofer, that's for sure! ;)

Did KEF nudge the xover down a hair, with the original being 2.2kHz and the meta being 2.1? I'd imagine it's insignificant, but perhaps there's more to it besides that seeming rounding error, suggesting that the slightly improved FR is due to a modified XO.

http://www2.kef.com/uploads/files/en/LS50/LS50_brochure_EN_preview_230412.pdf

https://us.kef.com/ls50-meta.html#attributespec

Edit: I'll also add that they state the LS50WII has "Extremely low distortion by driver motor redesign". So, perhaps we're not even talking about the same driver any longer?

https://us.kef.com/speaker/hi-fi-speakers/ls50-wireless-2.html
 
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73hadd

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I'm confused about something. My understanding of the new material is that it is supposed to eliminate the internal reflections.

Is this showing up in the new measurements in any way?

Yes, they are "flatter" but that is/has never been an engineering challenge, right?
 

quantum_wave

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Funny, when I measure my cheapo Dyn Emit 10s, they have that same ugly hump in the presence region. Creating that fake "window into the recording" as so many like to claim.

That said, I'm infinitely interested in the LS50W....or any of the latest crop of powered, DSP-tweaked monitors that can produce 40Hz at -3dB with a 5 in. woofer, if the distortion is managed as well. As it stands, it appears that the Genelec 8030 still outperforms these, at a similar price.

The marketing nonsense with unobtanium materials is truly a turn off however. I wish they didn't have to resort to such practices. Just say you stuffed the box with different/more polyester or something.....poly isn't naturally occurring.... Sorry, ugly marketing makes me grouchy. I'll still buy 'em if they measure well, and I won't return them if they sound good. :)

When considering these two you may also want to think about warranty and reliability. I have two pairs of KEF LSXs and one malfunctioned about 6 months in. KEF did do an excellent job of replacing it quickly but what if this had happened out of warranty?
 

Xyrium

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When considering these two you may also want to think about warranty and reliability. I have two pairs of KEF LSXs and one malfunctioned about 6 months in. KEF did do an excellent job of replacing it quickly but what if this had happened out of warranty?
I agree. I had a pair of Focal Solo 6's and one amp died just outside the warranty. I ate the cost which was offensively expensive. Two months later...the other one died. I sold them as broken and vowed never to go back to a powered solution....but...but....I dunno. They keep dragging me back in!
 

aarons915

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I'm confused about something. My understanding of the new material is that it is supposed to eliminate the internal reflections.

Is this showing up in the new measurements in any way?

Yes, they are "flatter" but that is/has never been an engineering challenge, right?

If you compare the original LS50 to the new one at Soundstage, the highs are much smoother and there is a peak around 2k that many found to be fatiguing, that is gone in the new ones. The meta whitepaper goes into detail and shows some measurements about the new design, it's not entirely the meta absorber making the differences, the driver and crossover is actually redesigned to work with the meta absorber but the measurements are very good. They also have a very nice smoothly declining response off-axis just like the Reference Ones, which are probably the best speakers I've ever heard.
 

Xyrium

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If you compare the original LS50 to the new one at Soundstage, the highs are much smoother and there is a peak around 2k that many found to be fatiguing, that is gone in the new ones. The meta whitepaper goes into detail and shows some measurements about the new design, it's not entirely the meta absorber making the differences, the driver and crossover is actually redesigned to work with the meta absorber but the measurements are very good. They also have a very nice smoothly declining response off-axis just like the Reference Ones, which are probably the best speakers I've ever heard.
Funny you mention the ones...I was thinking about the r100s and remember them being a better performer than the ls50s...but got over shadowed by marketing, IMO.
 

aarons915

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Funny you mention the ones...I was thinking about the r100s and remember them being a better performer than the ls50s...but got over shadowed by marketing, IMO.

The were definitely more neutral but I liked the LS50's for the cabinet alone, they looked much better and were very solidly built. The original LS50 were also easy to EQ and sounded great after removing the 2k peak and the slight hole from 1500-2k.
 

napilopez

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If you compare the original LS50 to the new one at Soundstage, the highs are much smoother and there is a peak around 2k that many found to be fatiguing, that is gone in the new ones. The meta whitepaper goes into detail and shows some measurements about the new design, it's not entirely the meta absorber making the differences, the driver and crossover is actually redesigned to work with the meta absorber but the measurements are very good. They also have a very nice smoothly declining response off-axis just like the Reference Ones, which are probably the best speakers I've ever heard.

Didn't realize Soundstage had posted their measurements! Yes that's a big improvement, especially when you consider KEF explicitly suggests listening off axis. The listening window is almost perfect save for that 3Kish scoop
 

jae

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No ASR review/measurements on the new KEF speakers yet? Would have thought these would have had a big interest
 

Xyrium

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Oh, they are of great interest. We were just waiting for you to send them in! ;)
 

Pearljam5000

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I agree. I had a pair of Focal Solo 6's and one amp died just outside the warranty. I ate the cost which was offensively expensive. Two months later...the other one died. I sold them as broken and vowed never to go back to a powered solution....but...but....I dunno. They keep dragging me back in!
Just imagine the repair cost
Focal_Trio11_BE-2 (3).jpg
 

XpanD

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Apologies if this has been asked before and I missed it, but has anybody been able to compare the new Meta and Wireless II yet? Does the Wireless II actually have some DSP special sauce in it that could make it sound significantly better than an EQ'd/Dirac'd Meta, or are you mostly paying for the streaming functionality and amps?

Making a shortlist of a few interesting speakers, but I'm not sure if the Wireless II would be worthwhile for somebody with access to Dirac and no interest in streaming. The sub outputs and many different inputs are quite tempting and I love the idea of being able to tweak the set from the listening position, but it's a steep jump in price.

(also have the Neumann KH80 on the list, but it's a lot more wiring and equipment to set up and I'm not sure if it'll appreciate being used at a 2.1m distance, even with subs)
 

sweetchaos

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XpanD

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Napilopez explained it very well on post #35.

I saw, but I wasn't sure if there was anything more to it. I know the new app lets you toggle stuff like phase correction, and there are general benefits to active crossovers (and DSP correction in general) over passive ones -- not sure how much this would actually affect the sound, though, or whether Dirac could mimic some of those benefits on its own. It's also been really hard to find any solid info there on other forums, as the original LS50 and Wireless were worlds apart even just in their frequency responses.
 

Beershaun

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The form and functionality of the LS50 Wireless II would give me everything I need in my open family room/kitchen area with high WAF. Thanks to all the folks who have posted their measures, comparisons and analysis! These look very much like an improvement over the LS50's which Amir gave a "do not recommend." Looking forward to seeing if Amir gets a sample to measure and if the new version reverses his previous recommendation. :)
 
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