new gustard u18 jitter -185 db

[sarumbear]

It's -185db, not 185db 1/(10^(-185/20)).

My formulas below are the same as yours. Isn't it? So why disagree on the value?

185 / 20 = 9.25
10^9.25 = 1.78E9
1 / 1.78E9 = 5.62E10

Specific make and model no idea, but Keysight, Rohde and Schwartz, Aaronia, etc.

I wasn't aware that you can measure -185dBV audio signal using a bench type testing device. It is around 60dB below the AP's sensitivity o -120dBV.

Am I missing something?

 

[doitttt]

in relation is gustard u18 to
gustard x26pro
as I also tried is more clarity in the sound, and more 3d.
because I can say it is, I use neumann 310a studio monitor.
they reveal everything in the music.
some world best, speaker for studio use
I have listened a lot to find new things in music

 

[doitttt]

i use iis2 interface

 

[audio2design]

My formulas below are the same as yours. Isn't it? So why disagree on the value?

185 / 20 = 9.25
10^9.25 = 1.78E9
1 / 1.78E9 = 5.62E10

I wasn't aware that you can measure -185dBV audio signal using a bench type testing device. It is around 60dB below the AP's sensitivity o -120dBV.

Am I missing something?

It's not audio. It is clock signal phase noise.

 

[audio2design]

in relation is gustard u18 to
gustard x26pro
as I also tried is more clarity in the sound, and more 3d.
because I can say it is, I use neumann 310a studio monitor.
they reveal everything in the music.
some world best, speaker for studio use
I have listened a lot to find new things in music

Riiiiiggghhhhtttt

 

[DHT 845]

in relation is gustard u18 to
gustard x26pro
as I also tried is more clarity in the sound, and more 3d.
because I can say it is, I use neumann 310a studio monitor.
they reveal everything in the music.
some world best, speaker for studio use
I have listened a lot to find new things in music

On what input in x26pro did you hear that difference?
What cables you used, including additional to u18?

 

[Deleted member 39414]

Two ?’s
Is OP the official Gustard web copywriter?
Are external clocks like this theoretical or do they have an application where they make a material impact?

i love my x16 so I don‘t see them making nonsense but I’ve been wrong before.

 

[doitttt]

SUPRA Excalibur USB 2.0​

used x26pro built-in usb
gustard u18 sounded better, the clock Accusilicon as338
do something about the sound, so it gets better
uses iis2 interface ,for gustard u18
Lindy 2.0 HDR - Gold Line - High Speed HDMI kabel - 1 m
big kabel i diameter

 

[doitttt]

I have nothing to do with gustard.
other I buy, their products
what I do squeeze, the last drops, out of the sound.
have tried singxer su6-su-2 su-1 as well
sotm dX-USB HD
gustard u18 is the best usbinterface i heard so far.
I have 3 dac
lks0004
rme fs
gustard x26pro

 

[DHT 845]

I have nothing to do with gustard.
other I buy, their products
what I do squeeze, the last drops, out of the sound.
have tried singxer su6-su-2 su-1 as well
sotm dX-USB HD
gustard u18 is the best usbinterface i heard so far.
I have 3 dac
lks0004
rme fs
gustard x26pr

That's interesting
I have lks 004 too (highly modified)
and lindy hdmi that I used for projector
I should try u18...

 

[sarumbear]

It's not audio. It is clock signal phase noise.

Aha! Thank you for that.

 

[misterdog]

Does anyone know if it can output AES and I2s at the same time ?

I could feed both my DAC and Sub DSP if it did.

Edit- just heard back from HiFiGo - it can..

 

[sq225917]

Yeh, now we know it doesn't sound any different too.

 

[NoNameNPC]

What is latest firmware for U18?

 

[MacCali]

Hmmmm.. I'm absolutely not an audio expert, and fairly new to audio.

But I am seeing some confusion going on here, not directing this towards @doitttt

First this is Jitter being fed into the dac. A pc is a easy way to stream music to a dac, and ironically they have optical outputs which do not carry noise. Yet the jitter is crazy bad.

I am not here to teach I am just stating a few things.

Second, I have had two units which reduce output jitter. The schitt eitr which is measured at -135db and my second is a Pi2AES. The Pi2AES destroys the schitt eitr and it's i2s measured performance is -142 db. I am not going to say that the jitter alone is what makes the Pi2AES so amazing. However, being bit perfect and whatever else it does is extremely outstanding.

By leagues, it is the greatest upgrade I have made to my system and has improved performance all around.

I believe Jitter is directly related to time smearing, and all those technical terms which I cannot go into detail about because I do not know. But the improvements I have noticed.
1. Sound stage blew up
2. Bass is way more defined
3. Detail is through the roof, especially on highs and not harsh
4. Even on junk speakers at typical low levels of volume where it sounded like poop sounds amazing now
5. Better imaging and instrument separation

Nothing I have introduced into my system has provided this level of dramatic audible change. I wish I can put a number to it, but honestly it feels like a 50% improvement or more because so much has changed by changing nothing but the source that feeds the dac.

And it's the cheapest piece of audio equipment in my entire main listening setup.

Also what brought me here was checking out the difference between the Gustard U18 and the Singxer SU-6/SU-2 KTE version, was hoping there were some measurements to see which is actually better.

*Those DDC's are not for my Pi2AES but my secondary stereo setup

 

[DeepSpace57]

The measurements appear the U18 lags behind the others ( jitter: 74ps by topping u90 vs 145 ps by gustard u18). Moreover, Golden sound did some tests regarding several DDCs. Many got similar results as the topping. U18 seems like equal to pi2aes in terms of jitter. Unfortunately, we do not have any noise floor measurement of U18, am I right?

Just curious about L7audio’s measurements. @WolfX-700 did some test on AF200. I could not understand as it did not show up any ps number; only charts. What are those ? Is there any thing to compare below with the wolf's measurements?

Wolf's: https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/xing-af200/

U18 official (only data we have) :

 

[MacCali]

The measurements appear the U18 lags behind the others ( jitter: 74ps by topping u90 vs 145 ps by gustard u18). Moreover, Golden sound did some tests regarding several DDCs. Many got similar results as the topping. U18 seems like equal to pi2aes in terms of jitter. Unfortunately, we do not have any noise floor measurement of U18, am I right?

Just curious about L7audio’s measurements. @WolfX-700 did some test on AF200. I could not understand as it did not show up any ps number; only get charts, I believe. What are those if I am wrong? Is there any thing to compare below with the wolf's measurements?

Wolf's: https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/xing-af200/

U18 official (only data we have) :
View attachment 195351

I got no clue, honestly do not understand those measurements as I have never seen a video explaining it.

I believe it is using complete isolation. It maybe the same with the Pi2AES. To my understanding the hat is isolated from all the BS.

I have only seen the review of DDC’s by golden sound. However it wasn’t only his measurements but honestly a few people who are not associated saying that the Pi2AES probably outperforms 2000 dollar streamers.

I mean I believe just a regular pi based streamer is significantly better than most electronics. But I do feel there’s definitely more to it than just jitter. I believe you touched on those points.

Also not here to knock the Schitt Eitr, it too as a simple addition to my pc did boost performance overall but I would say in comparison it’s 10% better than just right out the PC

 

[dc655321]

noticed.
1. Sound stage blew up
2. Bass is way more defined
3. Detail is through the roof, especially on highs and not harsh
4. Even on junk speakers at typical low levels of volume where it sounded like poop sounds amazing now
5. Better imaging and instrument separation

Nothing I have introduced into my system has provided this level of dramatic audible change. I wish I can put a number to it, but honestly it feels like a 50% improvement or more because so much has changed by changing nothing but the source that feeds the dac.

These “improvements” you observed were not taken under controlled conditions, correct? i.e. no level matching and no peeking at which device is active?

There is little probability of audible differences when proper listening controls are in place for such comparisons.

The amount of jitter being discussed here is almost comically small.

 

[MacCali]

These “improvements” you observed were not taken under controlled conditions, correct? i.e. no level matching and no peeking at which device is active?

There is little probability of audible differences when proper listening controls are in place for such comparisons.

The amount of jitter being discussed here is almost comically small.

See as I was stating, I personally usually listen at about -25 db on my preamp. That has been my go to prior to this streamer.

Ever since I put this in my system I can listen at -45 db and the music is equally satisfying. This was never the case before.

So I do get your point, but this is something I definitely noticed. So level matching and all that is generally a good thing to do to see if there are any true differences. But this streamer is doing it across the board. Previously -35 sounded like crap

I can also state in addition it literally sounds like I got a different pair of speakers playing just by adding this in.

So much more information is coming through, from bass, detail, imaging all those terms. It’s almost like by removing the Pi2 the music is veiled and distant at low volume. At higher volumes this is even further noticeable and enhanced.

So I can’t really say what level matching will do when even at 20 db difference of volume you still notice it. Nothing has changed in my system, nothing has been swapped out except the Schitt Eitr being fed from my PC to the Pi2.

You’re probably far more knowledgeable than me, and what you say may have merit. But I’m not sure how much a source is going to play on a dac and pre that was already in the system prior to this. It can’t be be providing like a 10 db spl boost and I can still listen to it at my typical -25

Also as previously mentioned I’m not making all this commotion for something you would really need to invest in or break the bank. It’s only 250 dollars. Also to my knowledge they are creating a new version of the hat which is going to be even better than this one.

 

[Blumlein 88]

See as I was stating, I personally usually listen at about -25 db on my preamp. That has been my go to prior to this streamer.

Ever since I put this in my system I can listen at -45 db and the music is equally satisfying. This was never the case before.

So I do get your point, but this is something I definitely noticed. So level matching and all that is generally a good thing to do to see if there are any true differences. But this streamer is doing it across the board. Previously -35 sounded like crap

I can also state in addition it literally sounds like I got a different pair of speakers playing just by adding this in.

So much more information is coming through, from bass, detail, imaging all those terms. It’s almost like by removing the Pi2 the music is veiled and distant at low volume. At higher volumes this is even further noticeable and enhanced.

So I can’t really say what level matching will do when even at 20 db difference of volume you still notice it. Nothing has changed in my system, nothing has been swapped out except the Schitt Eitr being fed from my PC to the Pi2.

You’re probably far more knowledgeable than me, and what you say may have merit. But I’m not sure how much a source is going to play on a dac and pre that was already in the system prior to this. It can’t be be providing like a 10 db spl boost and I can still listen to it at my typical -25

Also as previously mentioned I’m not making all this commotion for something you would really need to invest in or break the bank. It’s only 250 dollars. Also to my knowledge they are creating a new version of the hat which is going to be even better than this one.

Level matching is essential and just too easy to do. What you are describing is highly, highly unlikely without something having changed in the levels output. Run a 400 hz or 1 khz tone and measure it at your speakers with a simple AC voltmeter.