New Amphion One25a Active monitors

[Chrise36]

View attachment 277799New ACTIVE Amphion monitors being released at NAMM.

Amphion Announces First 3-Way Active Studio Monitor, One25A | Amphion

A reference studio monitor One25A remaining true to the Finnish innovator’s core strengths with the benefits of an active design

amphion.fi

-3 way 10”
-2 sealed boxes
-1100 watts in 3 amps
-soffit mountable
-22Hz-22kHz-3dB
-expensive

That 10" must be the SEAS L26

 

[dfuller]

What is this?

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View attachment 279322

Amphion is essentially using two sub-cabinets here. One for the woofer, one for the mid and tweeter.

 

[Moon162]

The vented port.

It's right in the quote: "with isolated bass and midrange chambers to minimize acoustic cross-coupling and provide superior resolution and clarity.”

Perhaps it's an isolation channel with some dumpening material in it. To avoid hard link between the chambers they put a grill on a front which also serves decorative purposes

 

[RobL]

Interesting construction but yikes, US$15000/pair? There’s a lot of competitors in this size class…

 

[muad]

Oops misposted

 

[muad]

Maybe they're referring to the sealed off mid chamber? Pretty much every decent 3 way does this.

 

[Penelinfi]

That slot also is part of this :
"The baffle around the midrange chamber is acoustically symmetrical for a smooth frequency curve and precise imaging,~"

So it acts as a free edge, presumably in the frequency range where diffraction occurs most?

 

[lowkeyoperations]

I take your point I just believe it better to say exactly what you mean, ‘fast‘ and ‘slow’ are bandied about on subjective forums, fast could mean no bass extension and ‘slow’ probably a room/dimension based bass issue or poorly integrated sub.

Keith

What words do you want us producers to use for the quality of a speaker that is able to articulate clearly the differences between transient responses of compressor settings vs one that doesn’t clearly make those differences apparent?

The issue being discussed relates to attack and decay, which is measured in time. So it’s not uncommon for a speaker that can articulate attack and decay very clearly to be called “fast” and one that can’t to be called “slow”. I think that’s a pretty reasonable subjective use of the word.

If you’ve ever spent hours fine tuning compression on every track in a song, you will know that this quality in a speaker is extremely important. So it’s commonly spoken about on producer forums. Its rarely discussed in reviews here because the reviewers aren’t using them to produce music and I not even sure if they measure it here? Step response and phase perhaps? But it certainly isn’t discussed much here.

If you go to a producers forum, no one uses the term fast to mean no bass extension. Slow wouldn’t be used to describe a room node. I’ve never heard anyone say they had a slow room.

If a speaker is great at articulating minute timing differences of compressor settings on the attack of transients, want word is ok by you for us to use if not ‘fast’?

 

[Penelinfi]

I'd rather hear what speakers music people think are good at this transient behaviour; let's skip the pages of debate over the descriptor - we are here for the equipment discussion right?

 

[lowkeyoperations]

^exactly!

Amphion’s studio monitors have a reputation for being able to do it well. Up until now (or a few weeks time) they have all been passive, SPL limited, and have all required a sub woofer or two to get them into full range territory. So this new model is pretty exciting despite being well outside the bounds of affordability for many.

Hopefully this means a new active range of smaller, more affordable models come out in the future too.

I’ve owned Amphion One15s and Neumann KH120S at the same time and compared them side by side while producing. The One15s were certainly better at highlighting those minute transient differences. They were easier and quicker to make decisions on and the music I made translated better to other systems.

I think it’s also worth noting that producing music and listening to music are quite different tasks. One is mainly active work, the other is mainly passive enjoyment (although there is certainly a bit of a crossover).

I found that the ability of the Amphions to highlight that transient behaviour didn’t necessarily mean I enjoyed listening to music on them more than the KH120S. In fact I preferred listening to the Neumanns in my lounge room (at a distance of about 2.5 m) when compared to the Amphions. Probably because I wasn’t focussed on decision making, I was focused on relaxing. Whether I could hear all those transients independently didn’t matter. Or maybe the fact they were all slightly glued together just sounds ‘pleasant’.

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[jaakkopetteri]

Yeah, but a sealed 10 inch driver will quickly hit it's excursion limits at 20hz.

I've spent a ton of time modelling the best 10 inch drivers with high xmax in a sealed configuration. Unlike ported, sealed is very excursion dependent. -3db anechoic at 22hz will be spl limited. I might have been overzealous with the 80db comment, but I wouldn't expect over 90db. It's going to run out of excursion.

Edit: I double checked and I was wrong. A 10 inch driver with 18mm xmax can get you 96db before hitting it's limits. That's a very long throw subwoofer driver but doable.

Who said anything about anechoic?

 

[lowkeyoperations]

That’s a really deep cabinet!

 

[MAB]

That 10" must be the SEAS L26

Yes it is one of the two variants of the Seas L26 for sure...

Maybe somewhere under 80db. There isn't enough excursion to pull that off at a higher spl.

Most likely that's an in room measurement

Yes, agreed, no way they get 22Hz. Here is an example of the L26RO4Y in a sealed cabinet with similar volume.

I have speakers built with both versions of the L26. I have used them sealed, ported, and with passive radiators... and they work great as autosound woofers too. However, they do not go to 22Hz at any realistic volume in any alignment.

I really dislike it when manufacturers spin facts like this. These speakers may sound good, but 22Hz is a fantasy.

 

[MAB]

What is this?

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View attachment 279322

The cabinet is split into a pair of acoustically isolated pieces. That slot is the snake-oil channel.
Everybody knows that the major source of sonic degradation (in a 100 pound speaker cabinet made of braced MDF) is the vibrational coupling of the midrange to the woofer. Amphion found that the only way to decouple these vibrations (caused by the poor woofer reaching excursion limits at 22Hz) is to split the cabinet into two sperate sub-assemblies. This justifies the absurd cost, and partially distracts us from the absurd assumption that the speaker actually plays at 22Hz.

Maybe the woofer sub-enclosure is detachable, and you can more easily send the sub-assembly back for service after you blow it up trying to reproduce deep bass.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

Yes, agreed, no way they get 22Hz. Here is an example of the L26RO4Y in a sealed cabinet with similar volume.

I have speakers built with both versions of the L26. I have used them sealed, ported, and with passive radiators... and they work great as autosound woofers too. However, they do not go to 22Hz at any realistic volume in any alignment.

I really dislike it when manufacturers spin facts like this. These speakers may sound good, but 22Hz is a fantasy.

Huh? The L26ROY can do 94dB at 20Hz anechoic (and that is with Klippel specs IIRC) and 22Hz is easily within usable range (fs 25Hz). Your picture shows one alignment, doesn't mean you couldn't Linkwitz or port it lower. Then you take room gain and stereo into account, 100dB is more than realistic. It's not really the ideal way to describe frequency range but it's not spinning facts either

Also, the way I understand the cabinet split is to have similar dispersion in both directions, not to decouple anything: "The baffle around the midrange chamber is acoustically symmetrical for a smooth frequency curve and precise imaging"

 

[MAB]

Huh? The L26ROY can do 94dB at 20Hz anechoic (and that is with Klippel specs IIRC) and 22Hz is easily within usable range (fs 25Hz). Your picture shows one alignment, doesn't mean you couldn't Linkwitz or port it lower. Then you take room gain and stereo into account, 100dB is more than realistic. It's not really the ideal way to describe frequency range but it's not spinning facts either

Mine can't. Not even with dual passive radiators. I have four of them, they are great but no way. Nor can Seas' own data that I showed you, in a sealed box almost the same size, and after significant DSP to flatten to that target.

 

[dfuller]

The cabinet is split into a pair of acoustically isolated pieces. That slot is the snake-oil channel.
Everybody knows that the major source of sonic degradation (in a 100 pound speaker cabinet made of braced MDF) is the vibrational coupling of the midrange to the woofer. Amphion found that the only way to decouple these vibrations (caused by the poor woofer reaching excursion limits at 22Hz) is to split the cabinet into two sperate sub-assemblies. This justifies the absurd cost, and partially distracts us from the absurd assumption that the speaker actually plays at 22Hz.

Maybe the woofer sub-enclosure is detachable, and you can more easily send the sub-assembly back for service after you blow it up trying to reproduce deep bass.

Or maybe, just maybe, they had a reason for it. A non-sealed midrange frame, for example.

What words do you want us producers to use for the quality of a speaker that is able to articulate clearly the differences between transient responses of compressor settings vs one that doesn’t clearly make those differences apparent?

The issue being discussed relates to attack and decay, which is measured in time. So it’s not uncommon for a speaker that can articulate attack and decay very clearly to be called “fast” and one that can’t to be called “slow”. I think that’s a pretty reasonable subjective use of the word.

If you’ve ever spent hours fine tuning compression on every track in a song, you will know that this quality in a speaker is extremely important. So it’s commonly spoken about on producer forums. Its rarely discussed in reviews here because the reviewers aren’t using them to produce music and I not even sure if they measure it here? Step response and phase perhaps? But it certainly isn’t discussed much here.

If you go to a producers forum, no one uses the term fast to mean no bass extension. Slow wouldn’t be used to describe a room node. I’ve never heard anyone say they had a slow room.

If a speaker is great at articulating minute timing differences of compressor settings on the attack of transients, want word is ok by you for us to use if not ‘fast’?

He never has. He's not a recordist or mixer or mastering engineer. He's a domestic audio salesman.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

Mine can't. Not even with dual passive radiators. I have four of them, they are great but no way. Nor can Seas' own data that I showed you, in a sealed box almost the same size, and after significant DSP to flatten to that target.

Define "can't". Do you have measurements of your system? The driver doesn't seem to pair very well with PRs (like the SL26ROY) in a small enclosure so I can understand that.

The Kingroy build has a high-pass filter at 17Hz. You could just as well EQ it to 20Hz flat - obviously that would limit headroom, but it's still far from fantasy

 

[MAB]

Define "can't".

Play when equalized to 3dB down at 22 Hz with headroom to keep up with my mains.

The driver doesn't seem to pair very well with PRs (like the SL26ROY) in a small enclosure so I can understand that.

Have you read the application note? Both versions pair well, the L16RO4Y being lower QTS... I use two PR per box, so I can get more output, but the response is the same.

So we are clear, 10dB down at 21Hz is not "response to 22Hz".

Seas gives the bass extension this in the KingROY application note as well, but it seems you are not reading these, or just taking snippets, or ignored it. They publish the FR too, so you can actually see what they get.

Again, 12dB down at 20Hz is not "response to 22Hz".

The Kingroy build has a high-pass filter at 17Hz. You could just as well EQ it to 20Hz flat - obviously that would limit headroom, but it's still far from fantasy

Yes the 17Hz filter is there because of the other part that you forgot to mention, they use a 27Hz peak filter to extend the natural response of the driver. I guess if you don't mind running the system out of excursion and listening to distortion, you could boost it more. But of course, it's just a 10" driver.