*NEW* AKG K702 has been measured by Oratory!

[IAtaman]

Got a pair during one of those end of Nov sales events. Just got around the listening to it today.

Out of the box sounds very tiny and bright to me. I did put on the home made in-ear mics and matched them on my head to HD600 + a bass shelf, and they sound quite good now with the EQ. To my surprise they can produce an OK amount of sub-bass.

They have this interesting "separation" effect - things tend to go wider left or wider right on my head compared to other headphones. It is nice but also a bit distracting, I am not sure if I like it yet.

 

[Soria Moria]

@oratory1990 I wanted to access your site for measurements but it doesn't load. In fact I haven't been able to access it for 2 years or something. I get errors all the time no matter what internet, device and/or browser I use. I'm so confused since I don't see people talk about this anywhere else. It's like I'm 'soulbanned' which is IP-banning but not possible to bypass.

 

[oratory1990]

@oratory1990 I wanted to access your site for measurements but it doesn't load. In fact I haven't been able to access it for 2 years or something. I get errors all the time no matter what internet, device and/or browser I use. I'm so confused since I don't see people talk about this anywhere else. It's like I'm 'soulbanned' which is IP-banning but not possible to bypass.

Same for everyone - the webmaster has gone AWOL, all accounts inactive. I'm not sure what happened to them.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I was not sure if I should post it here or start a new thread altogether, but it IS about the AKG 702 and measurements by @oratory1990, so let me share with you..

my AKG 702 EQ odyssey with a happy end

(Some nerds people might get inspired from this for their own EQ. Other might know all this already. English is not my mother language btw.)

The 702 never sounded fully correct to my ears. So mainly for comfort reasons I bought AKG 712 Pads for my AKG 702 a few months ago.

In a way, Oratory1990 measurements exist for the 702 with 712 pads, as you can find measurements for the AKG 702 65th anniversary edition, which is exactly this.

By switching the pads, comfort improved drastically and without EQ, it sounded better on most tracks (less harsh/bright). I can seriously recommend it. And according to measurements, I also would recommend it over the AKG 712.

So it sounded good. Still, I did not manage to make it sound great for months. The timbre always was slightly off. When I EQd based on Oratory1990s measurements, there always was a peak at 750hz followed by a dip. Also the peaks the EQ I heard were at slightly different positions compared to his EQ settings. It also sounded too shouty in general.

Oratory1990 once mentioned that the AKG702 is prone to be very dependent on different heads and seatings. Measurements I found on Squiglink seem to confirm this.
So I randomly clicked through measurements of other measurements of the AKG 7xx series and found this one:
AKG 702 with Geekria earpads.

If you forget about the fact that these are way less bassy, the positions of the peaks and dips were pretty much how where I perceived them on my own 702. Without these measurements, I would not have been able to put my finger on it though..

I dont think this is coincidence. My theory is that the main aspect how pads influence the upper mids is because they change the angle between ear and driver. As my ear or head size seems to differ from the norm, it likely happened that my "712 ear pad angle" was the same as the usual "Geekria ear pad angle".

So I did some experimenting on SquigLink.

First I downloaded the .csv presets of the "AKG 702 65th anniversary edition" and the "AKG 702 with Geekria earpads" from the AutoEQ github website (by @jaakkopasanen).
Then I opened the SquigLink of Listener. To my knowledge it has the most EQ options of all SquigLinks, including the option to save EQ graphs ("Save EQ"). It also contains the most common targets such as Harman 2018, Harman 2013, IEF Neutral, and tilted DF.

Next, I loaded the csv of the AKG 702 with Geekria earpads into the page and applied the recommended EQ by Oratory1990. I moved the target so that it was on the same height. This is how it looked (blue line without EQ, red line with EQ):

It looked the same as on Oratory1990s pdf, so the next step was to apply the same EQ on the 702 65th anniversary edition. This is how it looked like:

So as expected, the Geekria Earpads are way less bassy, so its EQ has way too much bass for my 712 pads. An interesting observation was though that it also went downhill from 750hz.

As I perceived a peak at 750hz followed by a dip, I knew that the EQ I needed was supposed to go further upwards after 750hz.
So I first removed the "760hz +2,8db 1,5Q" filter from Oratory1990s recommended EQ for AKG 702 with Geekria ear pads and added a -5DB Q1 Low Shelf filter @760hz instead so that the curve looked coherent. I also needed to make some listening tests in order to find this sweet spot.

Still, I was not possible to use AutoEQ in order to EQ the 702 to this curve yet. The AutoEQ function provided weird results because of the stark loudness difference. So first I added a +3,5db @500hz Q0,01 filter in order to match the loudness. A filter of Q0,01 is so wide that it hardly influences the tonal balance. Basically, you only raise the overall loudness. I played around with the loudness was about the same as the default AKG 702.

So it looked like this:

So, this was finally the EQ how I perceive my AKG 702 with 712 pads as correct. The EQ preset looks as follows:

Basically, I was finished here.
The next steps are some more unnecessary things I fooled around with..

To my taste, the filters were a bit unnecessarily complicated. Besides, even though it is a vast improvement over the Oratory1990 recommendation, I also wanted to change some more stuff to my personal preferance detail.

So I used the "Save EQ" function in order to create a simpler preset: First, I used "Save EQ". Then I removed the Harman 2018 target, so that it does EQ the 702 65th anniversary edition to that saved EQ preset instead.

The differences are below the threshold I can personally perceive, and the preset looks way simpler. This was the new preset. It was basically the same preset as the preset above, but it is way simpler and easier to apply:

From there, I made some more fine tuning by ear but it already was very close to my subjective optimum.

Another fun thing I did then was that I downloaded the Harman 2018.csv from the AutoEQ page and uploaded it as FR (instead of as a target), so I was able to EQ it.
I applied the variables above, but "backwards": I changed the positive variables into negative one vice versa (-7,3 db @22hz etc.).

Afterwards, I saved the EQ again. Now this was - vaguely - the AKG 702 with 712 pads how I perceived it personally all the time.

Now, by applying the AutoEQ function, I can use this curve as a starting point for EQing it to any other target curve I'd like to - to IEF neutral, for example.

Besides, you can find more interesting targets on the AutoEQ page or other audio websites - the "Antroid target", for example, which is similar to the Crinacle 2023 target but for headphones (no bass shelf, but a down slope from 200hz to 1000hz instead).

_____________________________

I hope, this might be helpful for others. I was trying to teach you some applications from Squiglink you can use for your own EQ personalisation.

Besides, it is also worth recognizing that if some EQ preset does not suit your subjective impression at all, there might nothing be wrong with the headphone itself, and it might be worth taking a look at different measurements (from the same headphone or even from the same headphone, but with different pads). Everyone who is into audio knows that we all perceive headphones slightly different. If a headphone measurement does not align with your subjective hearing, neither the measurement nor the headphone is necessarily to blame.

 

[Deckard01]

I was not sure if I should post it here or start a new thread altogether, but it IS about the AKG 702 and measurements by @oratory1990, so let me share with you..

my AKG 702 EQ odyssey with a happy end

(Some nerds people might get inspired from this for their own EQ. Other might know all this already. English is not my mother language btw.)

The 702 never sounded fully correct to my ears. So mainly for comfort reasons I bought AKG 712 Pads for my AKG 702 a few months ago.

In a way, Oratory1990 measurements exist for the 702 with 712 pads, as you can find measurements for the AKG 702 65th anniversary edition, which is exactly this.

By switching the pads, comfort improved drastically and without EQ, it sounded better on most tracks (less harsh/bright). I can seriously recommend it. And according to measurements, I also would recommend it over the AKG 712.

So it sounded good. Still, I did not manage to make it sound great for months. The timbre always was slightly off. When I EQd based on Oratory1990s measurements, there always was a peak at 750hz followed by a dip. Also the peaks the EQ I heard were at slightly different positions compared to his EQ settings. It also sounded too shouty in general.

Oratory1990 once mentioned that the AKG702 is prone to be very dependent on different heads and seatings. Measurements I found on Squiglink seem to confirm this.
So I randomly clicked through measurements of other measurements of the AKG 7xx series and found this one:
AKG 702 with Geekria earpads.

If you forget about the fact that these are way less bassy, the positions of the peaks and dips were pretty much how where I perceived them on my own 702. Without these measurements, I would not have been able to put my finger on it though..

I dont think this is coincidence. My theory is that the main aspect how pads influence the upper mids is because they change the angle between ear and driver. As my ear or head size seems to differ from the norm, it likely happened that my "712 ear pad angle" was the same as the usual "Geekria ear pad angle".

So I did some experimenting on SquigLink.

First I downloaded the .csv presets of the "AKG 702 65th anniversary edition" and the "AKG 702 with Geekria earpads" from the AutoEQ github website (by @jaakkopasanen).
Then I opened the SquigLink of Listener. To my knowledge it has the most EQ options of all SquigLinks, including the option to save EQ graphs ("Save EQ"). It also contains the most common targets such as Harman 2018, Harman 2013, IEF Neutral, and tilted DF.

Next, I loaded the csv of the AKG 702 with Geekria earpads into the page and applied the recommended EQ by Oratory1990. I moved the target so that it was on the same height. This is how it looked (blue line without EQ, red line with EQ):
View attachment 337094

It looked the same as on Oratory1990s pdf, so the next step was to apply the same EQ on the 702 65th anniversary edition. This is how it looked like:
View attachment 337093
So as expected, the Geekria Earpads are way less bassy, so its EQ has way too much bass for my 712 pads. An interesting observation was though that it also went downhill from 750hz.

As I perceived a peak at 750hz followed by a dip, I knew that the EQ I needed was supposed to go further upwards after 750hz.
So I first removed the "760hz +2,8db 1,5Q" filter from Oratory1990s recommended EQ for AKG 702 with Geekria ear pads and added a -5DB Q1 Low Shelf filter @760hz instead so that the curve looked coherent. I also needed to make some listening tests in order to find this sweet spot.

View attachment 337098

Still, I was not possible to use AutoEQ in order to EQ the 702 to this curve yet. The AutoEQ function provided weird results because of the stark loudness difference. So first I added a +3,5db @500hz Q0,01 filter in order to match the loudness. A filter of Q0,01 is so wide that it hardly influences the tonal balance. Basically, you only raise the overall loudness. I played around with the loudness was about the same as the default AKG 702.

So it looked like this:
View attachment 337099

So, this was finally the EQ how I perceive my AKG 702 with 712 pads as correct. The EQ preset looks as follows:
View attachment 337103

Basically, I was finished here.
The next steps are some more unnecessary things I fooled around with..

To my taste, the filters were a bit unnecessarily complicated. Besides, even though it is a vast improvement over the Oratory1990 recommendation, I also wanted to change some more stuff to my personal preferance detail.

So I used the "Save EQ" function in order to create a simpler preset: First, I used "Save EQ". Then I removed the Harman 2018 target, so that it does EQ the 702 65th anniversary edition to that saved EQ preset instead.

View attachment 337104

The differences are below the threshold I can personally perceive, and the preset looks way simpler. This was the new preset. It was basically the same preset as the preset above, but it is way simpler and easier to apply:

View attachment 337105

From there, I made some more fine tuning by ear but it already was very close to my subjective optimum.

Another fun thing I did then was that I downloaded the Harman 2018.csv from the AutoEQ page and uploaded it as FR (instead of as a target), so I was able to EQ it.
I applied the variables above, but "backwards": I changed the positive variables into negative one vice versa (-7,3 db @22hz etc.).

Afterwards, I saved the EQ again. Now this was - vaguely - the AKG 702 with 712 pads how I perceived it personally all the time.

View attachment 337108

Now, by applying the AutoEQ function, I can use this curve as a starting point for EQing it to any other target curve I'd like to - to IEF neutral, for example.

View attachment 337109

Besides, you can find more interesting targets on the AutoEQ page or other audio websites - the "Antroid target", for example, which is similar to the Crinacle 2023 target but for headphones (no bass shelf, but a down slope from 200hz to 1000hz instead).

View attachment 337110
_____________________________

I hope, this might be helpful for others. I was trying to teach you some applications from Squiglink you can use for your own EQ personalisation.

Besides, it is also worth recognizing that if some EQ preset does not suit your subjective impression at all, there might nothing be wrong with the headphone itself, and it might be worth taking a look at different measurements (from the same headphone or even from the same headphone, but with different pads). Everyone who is into audio knows that we all perceive headphones slightly different. If a headphone measurement does not align with your subjective hearing, neither the measurement nor the headphone is necessarily to blame.

Nice work even if I do not understand many!

I still have K701 and I am thinking of taking K702 as I see many more users use and try to work with them.

I still have K701 but I do not use them as I need to replace the pads and a user suggest me to take an amazon pair that seems to be good but i have not buy them yet (amazon pads).

Another reason I do not ant to sell or give up the K701 is that I have not found any headphone with big soundstage at this price range. Any suggestion would be helpful!!

I was thinking of HD800s but is far away of my budget! And I was reading that K701/2 is the budget option of HD800.

 

[Deckard01]

Hello,

Do you know in K701/K701 the thick side of the pads where should it be oriented? If I remember correct is at 9-10 o'clock?

In the back side of the ear I guess right?

Thanks

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello,

Do you know in K701/K701 the thick side of the pads where should it be oriented? If I remember correct is at 9-10 o'clock?

In the back side of the ear I guess right?

Thanks

Hi, yes, the thick part of the pad is behind the ear - which helps to angle the driver correctly at your ear, which some people think can help with soundstage, and it will also influence the frequency response so you'd want to make sure the pads are installed in the correct orientation because otherwise any EQ's you use (eg Oratory's) will become more invalidated because the frequency response will be further away from what has been previously measured.

 

[Deckard01]

Hi, yes, the thick part of the pad is behind the ear - which helps to angle the driver correctly at your ear, which some people think can help with soundstage, and it will also influence the frequency response so you'd want to make sure the pads are installed in the correct orientation because otherwise any EQ's you use (eg Oratory's) will become more invalidated because the frequency response will be further away from what has been previously measured.

Hello Rob thanks for the response!