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*NEW* AKG K702 has been measured by Oratory!

Robbo99999

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Hi, like the title says, Oratory measured my K702 I sent him, I've got two pairs and I sent him my old pair from year 2015 (made in China, not Austria). Yes, so Oratory published the result today:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/033kxyf8a0o3iv6/AKG K702.pdf?dl=0
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets
K702 Oratory.jpg


I've tried his EQ & I do like it, previously I was using my own EQ from a measurement by Crinacle.....he uses a GRAS measuring device too, so both Crinacle & Oratory measurements are compatible with the Headphone Harman Curve that we know & love (some hate though!:D)

Oratory measured my headphone both with the old very worn pads from year 2015 vs new pads which he put on for me, and here's the result of worn vs fresh pads:
K702 old pads vs new pads.png

Oratory advised me to ignore the increased bass roll off of the worn pads, as he said he "only did the quick measurement type, which doesn't give as accurate measurement results below ~50 Hz", so he said to assume for the worn pad bass frequency response it should just track the same shape as the fresh pads in the sub 50Hz, rather than paying any attention in the graph that the bass decrease accelerates faster than the fresh pads...so you should assume that those two lines won't cross over each other in the bass. Yes, so that's not bad, that's quite easy to correct the frequency response for old pads.

Oratory also did some distortion measurements of my K702 at different input voltages, with the maximum level being the equivalent of 104dB, and here's the results, (I have asked if he'd send me through graphs showing measurements at individual levels as the following graph is a bit congested to read, so I might update the graph if he sends me through what I've asked for):
K702 Oratory Distortion.png

So we can see that distortion in the bass is not bad, not an issue. There are a couple of distortion peaks at 1250Hz & 2000Hz, which seem to vary significantly depending on playback volume.


Oratory also measured Channel Matching of my headphone:
K702 Oratory Channel Matching.png

We can see that channel matching is not perfect here! Oratory did say that our hearing sensitivity in the bass area is quite low so the increasingly large difference in the bass as you go down into the subbass is not as bad as it looks. When I get my headphone back I'll be doing Channel Matching EQ on them so I'll be able to flip channel matching on & off whilst listening to Oratory's EQ, thereby I'll see if I can recognise any benefit of channel matching.

Group Delay:
K702 Oratory Group Delay.png

Excess Group Delay:
Not sure on significance of difference to above graph.
Excess Group Delay.png

EDIT: Oratory did say he'd have a go at finetuning the EQ some more, so it's possible that the EQ will be updated in the near future, so I'll edit this post if anything changes. I may also add my own personal tweak(s) I've added to Oratory's EQ. I'll also probably be editing this post to further to put the distortion measurements into better perspective re the dB values rather than the input voltage, and that graph may be updated with seperate graphs done for each level so it's more readable. I'll also try to see how those distortion measurements equate to Amir's standards that he sets, for instance the graph where he draws the +40dB threshold line on his 94dB distortion graph, or this may come to light in the discussions in this thread. I'll also update this post as more is learned through people's comments & analysis in this thread, and I may include a K702 EQ I've done from Crinacle's measurement too, so this may become a K702 EQ thread as well as initially displaying Oratory's measurements which he did just this week.

Finally, I'd like to say thanks very much to Oratory for measuring my headphones & the great work/contributions he makes to the headphone community....nice one Oratory, you're much appreciated!


@samwell7 , @Ravix , @bobbooo , @jhaider , @thewas , @Nango , @Seta Seta Pop , @Jimbob54 , @Bob-23 , tagging you all as you either have the K702 or expressed interested in Oratory's measurement & EQ of them.

EDIT 8/7/21: Oratory has measured my second (newer) K702 and results located at this post:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...as-been-measured-by-oratory.22992/post-819729
 
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Jimbob54

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What you were hoping for ? Any surprises? Is the fresh pad measure similar to Crinacle's ?
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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What you were hoping for ? Any surprises? Is the fresh pad measure similar to Crinacle's ?
Good point, I'll probably overlay Crinacles mesurement on Oratory's so we can see the difference. Will update in the thread over the next days.
The main difference from eyeballing it though, Oratory is showing a larger peak at 5500Hz vs Crinacles, so Oratory's EQ is a tad less harsh as my initial impression.

Yes, so I'm happy with Oratory's EQ, it's not miles different from my own EQ based on Crinacle's measurement, which is not a massive surprise, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity of my K702 getting measured by Oratory & it appearing in his databases and it's another data point along with Crinacles.....it's a popular headphone, so I feel it definitely needed to be in the database there for people to use.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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Follows Harman less than K612 does. Thanks for sending them to oratory1990!
You're welcome, no problem, it's a privilege to have my specific pair measured! K612 has lower preference rating though, 66 vs 72 of K702 (bottom of the pdf file), so I'm not sure you can really say it follows Harman less than the K612. Here's the K612: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4n2sjbhh1e6rnj/AKG K612.pdf?dl=0
They've both got some really quite similar characteristics in the frequency response, but different magnitudes.
 

Jimbob54

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I can't recall, has he measured a K701 (I have them)
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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I can't recall, has he measured a K701 (I have them)
For the open backed ones that look like they're from the same series so to speak, these are the ones he's measured: K601, K612, K702, K702 Anniversary Edition, K712, K7XX.

He hasn't done the K701.
 

markanini

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You're welcome, no problem, it's a privilege to have my specific pair measured! K612 has lower preference rating though, 66 vs 72 of K702 (bottom of the pdf file), so I'm not sure you can really say it follows Harman less than the K612. Here's the K612: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4n2sjbhh1e6rnj/AKG K612.pdf?dl=0
They've both got some really quite similar characteristics in the frequency response, but different magnitudes.
While technically true I'm not considering the low end, since its a matter of personal preference per the research.
Screenshot_2021-05-01 AKG K702 pdf.png
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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While technically true I'm not considering the low end, since its a matter of personal preference per the research. View attachment 127434
It's close, thanks for the overlay! There's certainly many similarities between these two headphones, K702 & K612. I think Crinacle's measurement of the K702 would be even closer to your K612, because the main difference I noted was the larger peak at 5500Hz on Oratory's measurement vs Crinacle's.

EDIT: @markanini , do you own a K612?
 

Ufasas

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what if my EQ doesn't have those 11000hz, 5450hz bands, etc? how am i to eq my 702?
 

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Berwhale

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what if my EQ doesn't have those 11000hz, 5450hz bands, etc? how am i to eq my 702?

The filters provided by Oratory1990 are for Parametric EQ (PEQ), these are applied in a quite different way from the Graphic EQ (i.e. fixed frequency bands) that you have on your sound card software. You can apply PEQ to your whole system audio with EqualizerAPO on Windows. Adding the PEACE front end UI to eAPO makes things easier.

You can read about equalization and the differences between PEQ and GEQ here: Equalization (audio) - Wikipedia

Equalizer APO download | SourceForge.net
Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO download | SourceForge.net

PEACE setup with Oratory1990's PEQ for AKG371...

1619885589110.png


This results in and EQ graphs like this...

1619885618786.png
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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@Ufasas , just for clarities sake, Berwhale is showing K371 EQ in the above post, (which he did mention but I'm just adding extra emphasis, that's not K702 EQ so you don't get them confused). Nice post from Berwhale, explaining how you apply EQ.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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Yes. If you are wondering I prefer it over the K702 for the warmer mids and treble.
Cool, does K612 have angled pads like the K702 does? How do you like the K612, is it your favourite headphone, which ones do you own, what do you like about it?
 

Fernando

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Great news!
I'm surprised to see a LOW_SHELF and a HIGH_SHELF in the PEQ, they hardly ever use it ...
 

markanini

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Cool, does K612 have angled pads like the K702 does? How do you like the K612, is it your favourite headphone, which ones do you own, what do you like about it?
The K612 pads are symetrical, non-memory foam. It's not quite favorite tier for me, on account of me preferring closed back punch. I rank it highly for an open back, because it shares the warm presentation of K371, Beyer DT880, DT770, and DT250-250. I can listen at moderate to loud volumes without ear fatigue.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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The K612 pads are symetrical, non-memory foam. It's not quite favorite tier for me, on account of me preferring closed back punch. I rank it highly for an open back, because it shares the warm presentation of K371, Beyer DT880, DT770, and DT250-250. I can listen at moderate to loud volumes without ear fatigue.
Nice, I was wondering what you would elucidate, because K702 is my favourite headphone for what I think are it's pretty unique spatial qualities, which I think is to do with the angled pads & large size of the earcups, so I was fishing for some similar qualities in your description....to me it seems angled pads of the K702 vs the non-angled pads of the K612 are the difference here, especially as the measured frequency response is very similar and I would think the general enclosure & ear cups are similar or the same as it is one of the same line of AKG's where they "look" the same. It seems as if you like the K612 for some other qualities rather than the ones I was fishing after, cool.
 

markanini

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I consider the imaging capabilities of K612 are almost too good. I didn't mention it because you asked what I liked about them, imaging isn't a personal priority.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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I consider the imaging capabilities of K612 are almost too good. I didn't mention it because you asked what I liked about them, imaging isn't a personal priority.
Ok, it's a pretty nebulous quality.
 

Seta Seta Pop

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Hi, like the title says, Oratory measured my K702 I sent him, I've got two pairs and I sent him my old pair from year 2015 (made in China, not Austria). Yes, so Oratory published the result today:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/033kxyf8a0o3iv6/AKG K702.pdf?dl=0
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets
View attachment 127401

I've tried his EQ & I do like it, previously I was using my own EQ from a measurement by Crinacle.....he uses a GRAS measuring device too, so both Crinacle & Oratory measurements are compatible with the Headphone Harman Curve that we know & love (some hate though!:D)

Oratory measured my headphone both with the old very worn pads from year 2015 vs new pads which he put on for me, and here's the result of worn vs fresh pads:
View attachment 127402
Oratory advised me to ignore the increased bass roll off of the worn pads, as he said he "only did the quick measurement type, which doesn't give as accurate measurement results below ~50 Hz", so he said to assume for the worn pad bass frequency response it should just track the same shape as the fresh pads in the sub 50Hz, rather than paying any attention in the graph that the bass decrease accelerates faster than the fresh pads...so you should assume that those two lines won't cross over each other in the bass. Yes, so that's not bad, that's quite easy to correct the frequency response for old pads.

Oratory also did some distortion measurements of my K702 at different input voltages, with the maximum level being the equivalent of 104dB, and here's the results, (I have asked if he'd send me through graphs showing measurements at individual levels as the following graph is a bit congested to read, so I might update the graph if he sends me through what I've asked for):
View attachment 127403
So we can see that distortion in the bass is not bad, not an issue. There are a couple of distortion peaks at 1250Hz & 2000Hz, which seem to vary significantly depending on playback volume.


Oratory also measured Channel Matching of my headphone:
View attachment 127404
We can see that channel matching is not perfect here! Oratory did say that our hearing sensitivity in the bass area is quite low so the increasingly large difference in the bass as you go down into the subbass is not as bad as it looks. When I get my headphone back I'll be doing Channel Matching EQ on them so I'll be able to flip channel matching on & off whilst listening to Oratory's EQ, thereby I'll see if I can recognise any benefit of channel matching.

Group Delay:
View attachment 127407
Excess Group Delay:
Not sure on significance of difference to above graph.
View attachment 127440
EDIT: Oratory did say he'd have a go at finetuning the EQ some more, so it's possible that the EQ will be updated in the near future, so I'll edit this post if anything changes. I may also add my own personal tweak(s) I've added to Oratory's EQ. I'll also probably be editing this post to further to put the distortion measurements into better perspective re the dB values rather than the input voltage, and that graph may be updated with seperate graphs done for each level so it's more readable. I'll also try to see how those distortion measurements equate to Amir's standards that he sets, for instance the graph where he draws the +40dB threshold line on his 94dB distortion graph, or this may come to light in the discussions in this thread. I'll also update this post as more is learned through people's comments & analysis in this thread, and I may include a K702 EQ I've done from Crinacle's measurement too, so this may become a K702 EQ thread as well as initially displaying Oratory's measurements which he did just this week.

Finally, I'd like to say thanks very much to Oratory for measuring my headphones & the great work/contributions he makes to the headphone community....nice one Oratory, you're much appreciated!


@samwell7 , @Ravix , @bobbooo , @jhaider , @thewas , @Nango , @Seta Seta Pop , @Jimbob54 , @Bob-23 , tagging you all as you either have the K702 or expressed interested in Oratory's measurement & EQ of them.
Thank You @Robbo99999!!!!
 
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