Neumann KH150

[Grotti]

I have a subscription to S&R. I’ll say this much - the measurements they post of this monitor are impressive, to put it mildly.

So they had them on the bench already? I am not asking for charts but could you elaborate a little bit more?

 

[RobL]

Umm don’t want to cross any boundaries…

The on-axis looks pretty much like this

 

[Rednaxela]

As opposed to this?

 

[Rednaxela]

...or this?

 

[RobL]

Yep, it looks like the first pic (literallly!)

 

[Grotti]

Yep, it looks like the first pic (literallly!)

But what about distortion compared to the KH 310? Especially in the midband?

 

[Fregly]

As opposed to this?

All subjective impressions should be done with pics like this, or Amir could do the subjective part of reviews in the form of a poem maybe.

 

[thewas]

All subjective impressions should be done with pics like this, or Amir could do the subjective part of reviews in the form of a poem maybe.

Or a Haiku:

The late in the lab
soothing smooth KH 150 shines
directivity

 

[RobL]

But what about distortion compared to the KH 310? Especially in the midband?

Looks like the 310 plays 4-5 dB louder from 400hz-2khz at 3% distortion. Very similar throughout the rest of the range.

 

[jhaider]

The new issue of S&R features a review of the KH150, as expected: https://www.soundandrecording.de/shop/sound-recording-05-2022/

You can buy the download or wait until they or Neumann put it online for free.

7,80 EUR is only USD7.65 right now.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I have a subscription to S&R. I’ll say this much - the measurements they post of this monitor are impressive, to put it mildly.

Are they any different from the measurements Neumann posted on their website?

 

[RobL]

I’m no expert but the S&R measurements correspond very closely with Neumann’s. S&R’s distortion test is one I’m not familiar with so I’m having a little trouble interpreting it.

They also mention in the review that in the near future they will be testing the KH150 with a KH750 and MA1.

 

[Grotti]

I’m no expert but the S&R measurements correspond very closely with Neumann’s. S&R’s distortion test is one I’m not familiar with so I’m having a little trouble interpreting it.

They also mention in the review that in the near future they will be testing the KH150 with a KH750 and MA1.

A pair of KH 150 + a pair of KH 750 + MA1 = endgame! At least for me ;o)...

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wonder how much is sacrificed because it's a 2-way vs the KH310 that is a 3-way
So far the one person who heard both said soundstage is smaller on the KH150 unfortunately

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I listened to the KH150 vs a 8351 and a Dutch & Dutch 8c today in a 12sqm room (thanks, @Hörzone). All of them without EQ, but the room was equipped with quite a lot of treatment, including AVAAs. It was less dry than my own room, though, and i cannot make valid comparisons to my own calibrated system. It was the first time hearing a Genelec for me. For me personally it was an interesting experience, but i don't think it is of much worth for others. I am not a trained listener and the setting was not controlled at all, i just listened to each of the speakers for some time, as i would at home.
I tried pushing all of them as hard as i could in bass, and all of them could handle more than myself. I was surprised that something in the 1-2k region of the Genelec bothered me a bit, there was a little "bite" while the others seemed more smooth. I don't know the reason for this (because on paper, the 8351 looks almost perfect), maybe something psychological, maybe i was tired at the time or maybe i am particularly sensitive to this, but mostly because of this i overall preferred the KH150 over the 8351 in this situation. If i wanted to buy a Genelec, i would take more time figuring out if this could be a subjective problem or not. In some tracks i think the Genelec was bit ahead and in others the Neumann, but to me, i did not have the feeling they were in a different class. They seemed pretty similar, and i guess the rest is up to individual preference or use case.
The D&D on the other hand seemed better to me than both, as far as i could tell in this scenario. It is of course also in a very different price category, so no surprise here.
I really cannot make a valid comparison or comment on the soundstage question, but as an owner of a KH310, i did not miss anything in the KH150. All of the 3 had a good stereo image, the D&D seemingly the most wide and overall "best" while 150 and 8351 seemed close to each other, but i guess if all of them would have been calibrated and/or in a different room, it could have been different. I did not hear any hint of "darkness" in the KH150, it sounded just right to me. But to be sure about that i guess the spinorama will be telling. I also did not find them lacking in the bass region. To my "wooden ears" the bass of the 150 sounded very deep, clean, loud and satisfying, even without a subwoofer. But this is hard to tell in an uncalibrated room.

 

[RobL]

I wonder how much is sacrificed because it's a 2-way vs the KH310 that is a 3-way
So far the one person who heard both said soundstage is smaller on the KH150 unfortunately

In the review, Dr. Goertz mentions the the 150’s sound much bigger than they are. It’s interesting that in S&R’s respective review summaries the 150’s get a +++ rating for sound quality while the 310’s got a ++ rating.

 

[dominikz]

I wonder how much is sacrificed because it's a 2-way vs the KH310 that is a 3-way
So far the one person who heard both said soundstage is smaller on the KH150 unfortunately

As far as I can see from the manufacturer's horizontal directivity diagrams, KH 150 seems to have a more narrow radiation pattern vs KH 310.

• KH 150: -6dB points between about 2-10kHz indicate around 75° horizontal radiation (-40°/+35°, orange/yellow border)
• KH 310: -6dB points between about 2-10kHz indicate around 100° horizontal radiation (-45°/+55°, yellow/green border)

In rooms where side-walls are reflective I would expect this to result in a somewhat narrower soundstage but more precise (or less diffuse) phantom images with KH 150 compared to KH 310. In case side-wall reflections are attenuated or dispersed there may be less of a difference.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I listened to the KH150 vs a 8351 and a Dutch & Dutch 8c today in a 12sqm room (thanks, @Hörzone). All of them without EQ, but the room was equipped with quite a lot of treatment, including AVAAs. It was less dry than my own room, though, and i cannot make valid comparisons to my own calibrated system. It was the first time hearing a Genelec for me. For me personally it was an interesting experience, but i don't think it is of much worth for others. I am not a trained listener and the setting was not controlled at all, i just listened to each of the speakers for some time, as i would at home.
I tried pushing all of them as hard as i could in bass, and all of them could handle more than myself. I was surprised that something in the 1-2k region of the Genelec bothered me a bit, there was a little "bite" while the others seemed more smooth. I don't know the reason for this (because on paper, the 8351 looks almost perfect), maybe something psychological, maybe i was tired at the time or maybe i am particularly sensitive to this, but mostly because of this i overall preferred the KH150 over the 8351 in this situation. If i wanted to buy a Genelec, i would take more time figuring out if this could be a subjective problem or not. In some tracks i think the Genelec was bit ahead and in others the Neumann, but to me, i did not have the feeling they were in a different class. They seemed pretty similar, and i guess the rest is up to individual preference or use case.
The D&D on the other hand seemed better to me than both, as far as i could tell in this scenario. It is of course also in a very different price category, so no surprise here.
I really cannot make a valid comparison or comment on the soundstage question, but as an owner of a KH310, i did not miss anything in the KH150. All of the 3 had a good stereo image, the D&D seemingly the most wide and overall "best" while 150 and 8351 seemed close to each other, but i guess if all of them would have been calibrated and/or in a different room, it could have been different. I did not hear any hint of "darkness" in the KH150, it sounded just right to me. But to be sure about that i guess the spinorama will be telling. I also did not find them lacking in the bass region. To my "wooden ears" the bass of the 150 sounded very deep, clean, loud and satisfying, even without a subwoofer. But this is hard to tell in an uncalibrated room.

Were the Genelecs calibrated with GLM?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Were the Genelecs calibrated with GLM?

No, neither Neumann nor Genelec nor D&D where calibrated.

 

[mulderX]

As far as I can see from the manufacturer's horizontal directivity diagrams, KH 150 seems to have a more narrow radiation pattern vs KH 310.

• KH 150: -6dB points between about 2-10kHz indicate around 75° horizontal radiation (-40°/+35°, orange/yellow border)
• KH 310: -6dB points between about 2-10kHz indicate around 100° horizontal radiation (-45°/+55°, yellow/green border)

In rooms where side-walls are reflective I would expect this to result in a somewhat narrower soundstage but more precise (or less diffuse) phantom images with KH 150 compared to KH 310. In case side-wall reflections are attenuated or dispersed there may be less of a difference.

I'm in the same dilemma. In my room the wall that I will put them is 2.70m.
I always wanted a 3 way speaker but as 310 must be horizontal I'm not so sure.
And now the 150 sounded a good idea!