Neumann KH120A or Genelec 8030C?

[Lilith]

I thought the 8330A with GLM were better than the 8030C and REW. But that’s just me. Definitely much easier.

What program did you use for the filters and did you also adjust the phase?

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Front or rear ported doesn't really matter as long you keep some centimeters to the wall. I think it should be at least the diameter of the bass port.
The room acoustic is getting much better when I move further to the back but from an ergonomic point of view it makes no sense. I think the angle of the speakers seems to be more than it is. I will measure it, but now the tweeters directly point to my head.

Thanks for the insight. (For what it is worth, I picked up the LM-65 stands, and absolutely love the amount of open desk space that has been reclaimed)

 

[EchoChamber]

What program did you use for the filters and did you also adjust the phase?

I passed the proposed REW compensation values to Roon’s EQ after measuring the room response with a calibrated Umik. No phase compensation. So it only worked when playing through Roon. I reduced overall bass using built in EQ (bass tilt) on the 8030C’s and then used Roon to lower a few low frequencies that were peaking, only the highest peaks. Not as effective and much more time consuming. I then did some subjective listening and still found some things not sounding right... The high frequency sounded “glassy” and un-focused, especially at higher volumes. Mind you the room is untreated. That’s when I decided to try the 8330A with GLM - big improvement and a breeze to room correct compared to the previous setup.

 

[mkawa]

so i just spent a few hours in the store's listening room with a set of 8040s and the 8030s. conclusions: at the upper midrange and upper ranges, you literally can't tell the difference between the two. that's incredibly impressive on genelec's part. also, C on the A-B-C switch was a set of focal trio6 Be's. in the tweeter ranges, the genelecs did well.

anyway, we threw a 7050 on the 8030s to listen against the 8040s and i still preferred the midrange and bass extension of the 8040s, so yah i'm going for the 8040s. deciding whether to keep the SVS sub with them or stick to near field. borrowing the store's 8040s until the new ones come in

40 filters in REW later (keep in mind the poor mic response is 10% room artifacts and 90% lack of a umik), i'm getting the following

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y8g8eayexrvela/Screen Shot 2021-04-06 at 8.33.29 PM.png?dl=0

green is with the sub, orange is without. the low sub volume levels are an artifact of non-linear volume oddness between the dac balanced and unbalanced outs that require the sub volume and monitor sensitivities to be mucked with by hand, but there's plenty of shaking of the desk in the subbass, so i'm reasonably happy there. i'd like to ditch the sub and go completely nearfield though, so i think i'm going to try some filtering of the low end of the monitors alone to compensate for the poor placement of the rear ports.

 

[stevenswall]

Ok, but I don't want to drop them

Think of it as more structurally rigid. Less likely to resonate. Genelec pays attention to everything in their flagships. Everyone else pays attention to some or most things, but not everything:

-No parallel cabinet walls
-Flared, curved port
-Edge to edge waveguide
-Coaxial drivers for less lobeing and better vertical dispersion
-No air gap in the coaxial drivers
-DSP correction and an amp per driver
-Maximum internal volume (rigid without internal braces taking up space, or super thick walls.)

 

[Newman]

-No parallel cabinet walls

IRC Toole says this is not a thing that matters. Which begs the question of why is Genelec doing things that don’t matter? Is it marketing? Or wrong-headedness?

If it’s the former: Boo!
If it’s the latter: Uh-oh.

 

[Lilith]

IRC Toole says this is not a thing that matters. Which begs the question of why is Genelec doing things that don’t matter? Is it marketing? Or wrong-headedness?

If it’s the former: Boo!
If it’s the latter: Uh-oh.

It matters, because putting them close to the wall reduces SBIR.

 

[Newman]

Sorry, what does that have to do with cabinet walls?

 

[Lilith]

Sorry, what does that have to do with cabinet walls?

Ups... Sorry I misunderstood...

 

[q3cpma]

IRC Toole says this is not a thing that matters.

From a standing wave point of view, it doesn't. But there are other reasons:
* Diffraction.
* Complex metal resonances being mitigated by FEA developed ribs and shape.
* Greater internal volume with the same height/width/depth.

 

[Newman]

From a standing wave point of view, it doesn't. But there are other reasons:
* Diffraction.

I doubt if anything other than baffle shape will have a worthwhile effect on diffraction?

* Complex metal resonances being mitigated by FEA developed ribs and shape.

I’ve seen no evidence that this is true, compared to FEA developed ribs and shape while keeping parallel walls, same internal volume.

* Greater internal volume with the same height/width/depth.

Surely a parallel-walled box gives the most internal volume for a given HWD.

 

[temps]

IRC Toole says this is not a thing that matters. Which begs the question of why is Genelec doing things that don’t matter? Is it marketing? Or wrong-headedness?

If it’s the former: Boo!
If it’s the latter: Uh-oh.

Who cares?

Measurements have shown time and time again that the Genelec cabinets are resonance free and the dispersion characters are fantastic. Even before switching to class D amps they were very linear on axis. Every aspect of their speaker evidences excellent design work, resulting in excellent speakers. Their speakers, in most markets, are priced very competitively, so it's not as if they're attempting to sell poor performers at unwarranted premium prices on the back of their unusual cosmetics.

So it's neither. You've raised a complete non-issue and threw in Floyd's name to make it sound like a serious critique. Poor show.

 

[Newman]

Take it up with stevenswall, he’s the one who raised it as a differentiating factor. I didn’t raise anything, I mythbusted.

You took aim at the wrong guy; now that’s a poor show.

 

[q3cpma]

I doubt if anything other than baffle shape will have a worthwhile effect on diffraction?

From the classic Elements of Acoustical Engineering, by Olson, it looks like the whole shape matters:

I’ve seen no evidence that this is true, compared to FEA developed ribs and shape while keeping parallel walls, same internal volume.

Don't know, but I do think metal could be a bit different.

Surely a parallel-walled box gives the most internal volume for a given HWD.

Sorry, tired brainfart on my part, was thinking about corner-to-corner distance, for some strange reason.

Anyway, I do think Genelec is one of the leaders in research and certainly the leader in function over form, I seriously doubt this was done only for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Newman]

From the classic Elements of Acoustical Engineering, by Olson, it looks like the whole shape matters:

Thanks for your well-considered reply.

The interesting thing about the above chart is that it is actually showing the effect of different baffle shapes.

The only ones with same baffle shape but different ‘remainder’, are double cone and double pyramid, which vary only very slightly in frequency response from the non-double counterparts. Good illustration.

cheers

 

[q3cpma]

The only ones with same baffle shape but different ‘remainder’, are double cone and double pyramid, which vary only very slightly in frequency response from the non-double counterparts.

And sphere/hemisphere, no?

 

[Newman]

I see the sphere as a baffle all the way around, since its only ‘edges’ are the end of the sphere. There is no identifiable end of baffle and start of remainder, for a sphere. And hence the hemisphere is a truncated baffle, so a different baffle shape.

 

[q3cpma]

I see the sphere as a baffle all the way around, since its only ‘edges’ are the end of the sphere. There is no identifiable end of baffle and start of remainder, for a sphere. And hence the hemisphere is a truncated baffle, so a different baffle shape.

That's a way of seeing it, but the Captain Obvious in me still sees an hemisphere as exactly half a sphere, showing that what's going on on the sides and maybe rear matters.

 

[engineer]

Hello, which model would you recommend me to listen to music on pc? Genelec 8030c (540 €) or Neumann KH120A (620 €)? The speakers will be placed about 15 cm from the wall. I require a minimum of hiss and clear and wide sound. Thank you for advice.

 

[YSC]

Hello, which model would you recommend me to listen to music on pc? Genelec 8030c (540 €) or Neumann KH120A (620 €)? The speakers will be placed about 15 cm from the wall. I require a minimum of hiss and clear and wide sound. Thank you for advice.

they are more alike than different in sound, I would say choose the one you like more