Barefoot Footprint 01 vs Sonarworks measurements

[Bartic]

Hey guys,
I'm on the fence on whether to get the footprint 01. Currently using Genelec 8040b.
I have a good deal on them atm.

I had a chance to demo them in my small studio. The Genelecs sounded scooped and a bit harsh in comparison. The barefoots have a more clear low end, easier to eq and discern kick/bass. Real nice and punchy, you can really feel the lows. The Genelecs maybe have a bit more detail in the upper mids/highs compared to the barefoots, or maybe its just the harshness fooling me into thinking its more detail. Barefoots have worse directivity and beamy-sounding tweeters.
All in all, the Genelecs sound thinner, more fatiguing, but more detailed in the highs/upper mids compared to the barefoots. Barefoots seem to have better mids and better balance/full range and much better low end.

What confused me is the measurements that I took with Sonarworks in my not so ideal studio. The Genelecs came out much more linear compared to the Barefoots, which is definitely off-putting, since linearity is what ones strives for in a speaker. I also have measurements from before of the Neumann Kh120s and KRK rokit 8 Gen 2, and they too have a more linear result.
I am rather confused when analyzing these results. It seems the KRK Rokit 8 gen 2 is more linear (in this room that is) than the Barefoot. But it definitely doesn't sound better.
I will post results of the left and right speaker separately. Bear in mind that the left speaker's placement is catastrophic when it comes to acoustics. But view it as a comparison.

One weird thing with the Barefoots is the high crossover point of 250hz between the woofer and the midrange driver. When eq-ing vocals, a vital part of the vocal is the 200hz region, which in the FP01s case seems to be firing to the sides, instead of directly at my ears like in all other monitors, providing a not so accurate representation of that range. Very strange. I don't know any other speaker designed that way.

If you anyone could provide any input on these measurements, I would appreciate it.
I'm also considering the KH310.
Thanks and take care

 

[Bartic]

These are the measurements of the left speaker of the 01s, Genelecs and KH120s. Unfortunately it is placed in a tri-corner, explaining the enormous peak at around 60hz. The results overall for each speaker are far from ideal. But the KH120 and Genelec hold up solidly, compared to the Barefoot.

 

[GD Fan]

Objectively the FR for the Gens does look the best.

Amir / ASR has tested the Barefoots. You can search for the link. Sadly the member who contributed them for testing seems to have quit the site, but don't take that as an example.

Let us know what you choose.

P.S. I would consider future / warranty support from established brands vs. garagistas.

 

[holdingpants01]

I demoed Barefoot FP01 (and FP02 as well) at my studio, while having KH310 at the same time and then I switched to Genelecs. While differences between Neumanns and Genelecs are down to different shade of white, Barefoot didn't sound like a studio monitor at all. Sound was all over the place with overblown bass and weird mids, which is kind of what those graphs show as well. It was different enough that I get someone would like it more, as it made all the material sound more consistent and finished. I was baffled with what I heard and returned them after a week.
Anyway, you get more low end extension with FP01, but adding subwoofer to either KH120 or 8040 would be even better. If you're on the creation side of the studio work (composing, producing) rather than the service (editing, mixing and mastering), I would suggest to go with monitors that inspire you more and are more fun.

 

[Music1969]

It seems the KRK Rokit 8 gen 2 is more linear (in this room that is) than the Barefoot

What distance are you measuring from the monitors?

Nearfield?

Less than 1.5m ?

 

[kongkong]

I have seen and heard footprint1&output speakers.
Both of them are have not good off-axis response. I haven't heard kh310 but I watched its klippel data. It is very ideal 3way montior.

Especially Output speakers has unique character more than hifi brand speaker. I cannot recommend barefoot's goods carefully after hearing them. (Price also)

 

[Bartic]

Objectively the FR for the Gens does look the best.

Amir / ASR has tested the Barefoots. You can search for the link. Sadly the member who contributed them for testing seems to have quit the site, but don't take that as an example.

Let us know what you choose.

P.S. I would consider future / warranty support from established brands vs. garagistas.

I've come across mixed opinions when it comes to the quality and longevity of their (Barefoot's) parts. I've read across forums, that in some instances the barefoots came either with a non functioning tweeter, or some sort of QC issue. I've also heard from a user that he blew a woofer on a footprint 02. But in his case, he said Barefoot customer support were nice and sent in a replacement quickly and instructed him on how to replace it himself. I know Focals have issues with their parts. I just had a friend have trouble with his trio6 be, about a year old, took Focal 8 months to repair it. So yeah, unfortunately there's always a risk with speakers/drivers/amps. Good thing is that is know that Barefoot uses Peerles by Tymphany tweeter and Dayton drivers. Barefoot says they're not off the shelf and that they're modified (in a thread somewhere), but no one knows if that statement is true and to what extent.
Will definitely keep you updated

 

[Bartic]

I demoed Barefoot FP01 (and FP02 as well) at my studio, while having KH310 at the same time and then I switched to Genelecs. While differences between Neumanns and Genelecs are down to different shade of white, Barefoot didn't sound like a studio monitor at all. Sound was all over the place with overblown bass and weird mids, which is kind of what those graphs show as well. It was different enough that I get someone would like it more, as it made all the material sound more consistent and finished. I was baffled with what I heard and returned them after a week.
Anyway, you get more low end extension with FP01, but adding subwoofer to either KH120 or 8040 would be even better. If you're on the creation side of the studio work (composing, producing) rather than the service (editing, mixing and mastering), I would suggest to go with monitors that inspire you more and are more fun.

Yes, I was definitely getting some sort of PA vibe with the 01s. I only had a chance to AB the speakers in mono, but when I did, the Barefoots sounded almost like a mini club speaker compared to the genelecs. They're low end representation, although overwhelming at first, is much better than on the Genelecs, even though the Genelecs perform very well for a 6.5 inch driver. So yes, at first I was shocked by the difference in sonics when I first listened to the 01s in stereo, after a few days I got accustomed to them. To me the 01s sounded less hyped overall (except for that fat low end), while the Genelecs sounded more polished since they were accentuating the highs and missing some of that lower midrange. As soon as I plugged the Genelecs in and played some tracks, (this is after a few days of working on the Barefoots), I immediately noticed how thin the Genelecs sounded compared to the 01s. It was very apparent. These observations were all done with Sonarworks at 100%.
I've come across a lot of situations and other peoples' experience, were adding one sub in a small room can be troublesome, or might just sound like its detached (not implented properly). (note: Although in this situation, adding a sub and placing it accordingly would help mitigate the peak I have at about 60hz, since that problem is only due to speaker placement, but I'd still rather a 3way since I won't be staying in this studio forever).
Best thing would be to add 2 subs, but yeah, I would probably be looking at a 3 way speaker that goes low enough for now.
I know one thing's for sure, I definitely need some more low end extension.

 

[Bartic]

What distance are you measuring from the monitors?

Nearfield?

Less than 1.5m ?

Yes, pretty much, 148cm.

 

[Bartic]

I have seen and heard footprint1&output speakers.
Both of them are have not good off-axis response. I haven't heard kh310 but I watched its klippel data. It is very ideal 3way montior.

Especially Output speakers has unique character more than hifi brand speaker. I cannot recommend barefoot's goods carefully after hearing them. (Price also)

Yes, I've seen Output Frontier's measurements by some guys from Korea, and they don't look good. I know they too were designed by Thomas Barefoot.
You can check out the full data here https://www.cuonet.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=rev_gui&wr_id=96015#c_96023

The KH310 and the Neumann KH line have extraordinary measurements. So do the Genelecs.
I mean, it's funny, they both measure relatively flat, but still sound different compared to one another.

I don't want to be that guy who just "sees" and "observes" sound through measurements, and disregards anything that isn't flat, but at the same time it's discouraging to see the measurements of the 01s vs 8040/kh120, especially the left speaker, where there is a huge 6db dip from 300hz to 1.3khz, where the other speakers don't exhibit that behavior from the same position. I even thought that it could be a faulty midrange driver. I was stupid not to switch the barefoot speakers around and re-measure, to see if the other 01 speaker would behave the same. But it's probably the room/placement/acoustics affecting 01s in that way, rather than a faulty driver. I would have felt much better about them if they had at least some sort of EQ switches on the back to fix these issues, instead of relying solely on Sonarworks.

 

[dominikz]

The KH310 and the Neumann KH line have extraordinary measurements. So do the Genelecs.
I mean, it's funny, they both measure relatively flat, but still sound different compared to one another.

Note that directivity characteristics are different between similar Neumann and Genelec models, and even the on-axis is not 100% the same. That surely explains any audible differences. For example:

 

[kongkong]

Yes, I've seen Output Frontier's measurements by some guys from Korea, and they don't look good. I know they too were designed by Thomas Barefoot.
You can check out the full data here https://www.cuonet.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=rev_gui&wr_id=96015#c_96023

The KH310 and the Neumann KH line have extraordinary measurements. So do the Genelecs.
I mean, it's funny, they both measure relatively flat, but still sound different compared to one another.

I don't want to be that guy who just "sees" and "observes" sound through measurements, and disregards anything that isn't flat, but at the same time it's discouraging to see the measurements of the 01s vs 8040/kh120, especially the left speaker, where there is a huge 6db dip from 300hz to 1.3khz, where the other speakers don't exhibit that behavior from the same position. I even thought that it could be a faulty midrange driver. I was stupid not to switch the barefoot speakers around and re-measure, to see if the other 01 speaker would behave the same. But it's probably the room/placement/acoustics affecting 01s in that way, rather than a faulty driver. I would have felt much better about them if they had at least some sort of EQ switches on the back to fix these issues, instead of relying solely on

this measurement is testest by @Nuyes

It is trustable.

 

[Bartic]

Note that directivity characteristics are different between similar Neumann and Genelec models, and even the on-axis is not 100% the same. That surely explains any audible differences. For example:View attachment 311767View attachment 311768

I agree. Still both the Genelec and the Neumann provide excellent results. Like in my testing (considering the given circumstances).

What's shocking is the Barefoot's unevenness and downwards slope in both cases, not to mention that huge 6db dip from 300hz to 1.3khz from the right speaker, which is non-existent with the other speakers.