What does Neumann mean when they say the KH 870 is "7.1 analog bass managed"?
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Neumann KH 870
- Thread starter SimpleTheater
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AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
That might not be translated too well. It's got bass management for a 7.1 system, with analog 4th order crossover filters.
It´s all in the manual: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/8990/download
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
So this sub has balanced inputs for seven surround locations (R / C / L / etc).
The manual is very confusing, unless these are NOT supposed to be used for a home theater setup. For example it says "The diagram “Connection of a 7.1 system” also demonstrates that the built-in 7.1 Channel High Definition Bass Manager™ can be used to build 1.0, 2.0, 3/1.0, 5.0, 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 and 7.1 Theatrical systems."
This makes me think that if you are building a 13.4.4 home theater system, you should simply use this subwoofer as a stand alone sub.
The manual also shows the ability to daisy chain the subs together, which could be advantageous in terms of keeping the wiring easier as you work your way around the room.
Is the value of the Neumann KH 870 this Bass Manager for recording studios or just that its an amazing subwoofer, or both?
What is it that you don't understand?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
If you’re going beyond a 7.1 system, does their high definition bass management system work properly.
I understand that bass management means that up to 7 channels can be split analog at 80 Hz so that the bass of these channels is summed up and processed by the sub, while the rest of the signal is routed to the up to 7 monitors, plus a LFE channel can be processed. If you have more than 7 channels this kind of routing/summing doesn´t work, of course, because you can´t plug in more than 7+1 channels. If you really want to use 4 of these for a 13.4.4-system, you could connect all 17 monitors (up to 28 = 4 x 7) to the subs, if you want to achieve that the subs are taking over bass duties.
I´m afraid i still don´t really understand the question, though.
I´m afraid i still don´t really understand the question, though.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
Probably because the Neumann instructions aren’t clear what happens to bass management outside of their specific scenarios. Most companies will specify not to use, or how to use, a system outside of their scenarios (e.g. In a system that goes beyond 7.1, use your AV sub integration : or In a system that has more than 7 speakers or one sub, use our bass management in conjunction with your AV sound processor).
Has it now become clear to you or are there still questions open from your point of view?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #11
It's completely unclear.
Maybe rephrase your question? What do you intend to do and how is it unclear how the KH870 will behave in any scenario? I just don´t see it. Or maybe someone else does?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #13
I would like to use the KH 870 in a 13.4.4 setup. Should I be using the built-in High Definition Bass Manager or not?
Maybe someone else can give you more competend advice, but from what i see:
It is possible to connect all 4 LFE channels and 17 other channels to those. "Bass management" means, that the subs will take over bass duties for the speakers that are connected to them. Not more or less.
But personally, i would not even use it in a 2.0-system, because i would prefer a digital solution for bass management. I have no experience in building a 13.4.4-system, but i guess it is much easier if a modern AV processor takes over the management of the channels, crossovers, routing, delays, phase and so on. I you plan to spend - i don´t know - 40.000-50.000(?) on such a system (subs are 15.000 alone) i would not only plan buying a decent processor but probably would seek professional advice for setting it up correctly.
It is possible to connect all 4 LFE channels and 17 other channels to those. "Bass management" means, that the subs will take over bass duties for the speakers that are connected to them. Not more or less.
But personally, i would not even use it in a 2.0-system, because i would prefer a digital solution for bass management. I have no experience in building a 13.4.4-system, but i guess it is much easier if a modern AV processor takes over the management of the channels, crossovers, routing, delays, phase and so on. I you plan to spend - i don´t know - 40.000-50.000(?) on such a system (subs are 15.000 alone) i would not only plan buying a decent processor but probably would seek professional advice for setting it up correctly.
By the way, is 13.4.4 really a thing? Really 4 seperate LFE channels? Or 1 LFE channel routed to 4 subs?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #16
1 LFE channel routed to 4 subs
The sub includes a multi-channel crossover, that's all. You connect each channel to the sub, and then from each sub output to the respective speaker. A lot of pro audio interfaces, even the fancy expensive ones with DSP, don't always include low pass filter capability for whatever reason so you can't do crossovers. Thus I guess it is common to do it in the subwoofer instead, Genelec subs have the same setup.
If you are building a 21(!)-channel home theatre, you must be using a very high end processor, so there is no reason to use Neumann's crossover. Just set things up normally and connect to the "DIRECT IN/LFE" input.
All that said, I can't imagine why you would buy such expensive studio subs for a home theatre setup. Units from Rythmik or Power Sound Audio or any number of other manufacturers(Arendal, JTR, Hsu, SVS, etc etc) will have much better price/performance.
If you are building a 21(!)-channel home theatre, you must be using a very high end processor, so there is no reason to use Neumann's crossover. Just set things up normally and connect to the "DIRECT IN/LFE" input.
All that said, I can't imagine why you would buy such expensive studio subs for a home theatre setup. Units from Rythmik or Power Sound Audio or any number of other manufacturers(Arendal, JTR, Hsu, SVS, etc etc) will have much better price/performance.
Yeah, the monitors are great, but no reason to buy the Neumann or Genelec subs for a high-end HT setup IMO. If you have Dirac w/bass module or the Trinnov stuff, it will do a much more sophisticated job of crossover/bass management anyways.
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Yeah the KH 870 is the exact same price as the JTR Captivator 4000ULF, and the JTR will blow the Neumann out of the water in every way. You can also upgrade to a 6000 watts RMS amp for an addition $300.
For a budget that size, I would get 4 Captivator 4000s and a good bass management/processor like Trinnov.
For a budget that size, I would get 4 Captivator 4000s and a good bass management/processor like Trinnov.
