Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[DJBonoBobo]

This is just a visualization/prediction/wishful thinking of an EQed response, it's not a measurement and you can't tell anything from it. If you want to do measurements just use proper software

In my experience the predictions are very close to the actual measurement (apart from the smoothing - the 100Hz dip is probably worse than it looks. Your own REW measurement provides a lot more info of course.

@morello777 This is a review thread of the KH150. Better start your own thread with your questions and more info about your room, speaker and listening positions and so on, if you want more help.

 

[Vanx]

Is anyone using iso acoustics stands for the Kh150? Which one ?

I bought the ISO-200 as their calculator suggested this for the KH150, but it seems big.

 

[Klonatans]

Is anyone using iso acoustics stands for the Kh150? Which one ?

I bought the ISO-200 as their calculator suggested this for the KH150, but it seems big.

Yes, indeed they look oversized for KH 150. Maybe you can send them back if the seller accepts returns.

For my KH 150 I use K&M 26722 stands and Swissonic pucks from Thomann that are relatively cheap (58 EUR for 8 pieces).

 

[mj30250]

Is anyone using iso acoustics stands for the Kh150? Which one ?

I bought the ISO-200 as their calculator suggested this for the KH150, but it seems big.

I use the 155s and they work fine.

 

[Vanx]

Thanks so much.. I'm out of the return window so I would have to sell them and buy the smaller ones.
Each feet is touching, at least half of each circle pad, I hope it is working as intended, Isoacoustics still has to give me a reply as I have sent them an email in regards of this problem.

Next days I'll attempt to calibrate the system with the MA1 software.
Wondering if the added latency will be noticeable and I would be good in setting back the speakers to "local", each time I have to play and record instruments to avoid timing issues.


If no particular monitoring reference level is needed (I use them to produce and mix my own music), how do you guys suggest to set the input gain and output level? I'm using an Apollo X8P interface. I see the input gain isn't stepped, so to perfectly match the pair it would needed be set on -15 or 0db. Right now they are at 0db and 100db output level, the sound card output level is set on a pretty low level (I'm at half gain and already measuring around 75dbA through my Apple Watch) , would -15db and 94db output be the ideal setting?

thanks so much for the help

 

[NoTBaTMaN]

In my experience the predictions are very close to the actual measurement

In my case - not at all. Thats why my dual subwoofer setup was so disappointing at first (you might remember our conversation in the MA-1 thread).
Today it dawned upon me that using only the automatic calibration is leaving a lot of potential on the table.
I made some adjustments to finally fix this (2x KH310A + 2x KH750 DSP):

REW (after my adjustments)

And thats how horrible that looks in MA-1:

Here is what MA-1 does automatically:

And in REW (red is automatic calibration only):

 

[DJBonoBobo]

In my case - not at all. Thats why my dual subwoofer setup was so disappointing at first (you might remember our conversation in the MA-1 thread).
Today it dawned upon me that using only the automatic calibration is leaving a lot of potential on the table.
I made some adjustments to finally fix this (2x KH310A + 2x KH750 DSP):

REW (after my adjustments)
View attachment 320618

And thats how horrible that looks in MA-1:
View attachment 320619

Here is what MA-1 does automatically:
View attachment 320621
And in REW (red is automatic calibration only):

View attachment 320620

Interesting...
But the red measurement in REW is pretty close to the predicted automatic curve (considering the different smoothing)?

 

[NoTBaTMaN]

Interesting...
But the red measurement in REW is pretty close to the predicted automatic curve (considering the different smoothing)?

I don't think so, at least not in the critical 50-70Hz area.
For example, at ca. 61 Hz I have measured a null but MA-1 predicts a slight hump.
I was lacking the powerful bass that I got in previous single sub calibrations, but couldn't even replicate those, so it couldn't be the room but had to be the algorithm.
I basically took the Neumann curve and tried to get to it manually.

EDIT:

My main point is that the manually adjusted calibration sounds and measures better than everything I had before by just using the automatic calibration.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I don't think so, at least not in the critical 50-70Hz area.
For example, at ca. 61 Hz I have measured a null but MA-1 predicts a slight hump.

I see. Which is in some way consistent to the big difference in the other window.
I don't know how Neumann composes the curves. Maybe it has something to do with it being an average of multiple measurents?
Was your REW measurement at a single point?

 

[NoTBaTMaN]

I see. Which is in some way consistent to the big difference in the other window.
I don't know how Neumann composes the curves. Maybe it has something to do with it being an average of multiple measurents?
Was your REW measurement at a single point?

Yes, good call, the REW measurement was done at a single point.
Some of my earlier MA-1 measurements were done at a single point too, to figure out the best sub position (as Neumann recommends).
I'm not sure how relevant this is, as the sound is very consistent even I move a bit. I have absorbers on my desk, at the ceiling and the sidewall first reflection points, I guess that helps. I also use much less toe-in than in the past and therefore sit a bit off-axis.

 

[Elder]

In my case - not at all. Thats why my dual subwoofer setup was so disappointing at first (you might remember our conversation in the MA-1 thread).
Today it dawned upon me that using only the automatic calibration is leaving a lot of potential on the table.
I made some adjustments to finally fix this (2x KH310A + 2x KH750 DSP):

REW (after my adjustments)
View attachment 320618

And thats how horrible that looks in MA-1:
View attachment 320619

Here is what MA-1 does automatically:
View attachment 320621
And in REW (red is automatic calibration only):

View attachment 320620

Thanks for sharing. This is the first time I've seen someone mention a manual calibration leading to better results than the MA-1 calibration. Interesting...

Would you mind documenting the steps you took in REW to achieve this? I've played around with the REW and EQ APO combination a couple of times but don't think I was doing it right to be honest.

I was initially thinking of getting the KH310, but have half decided on the KH150 now, mostly due to the MA-1 implementation. If I can get the same results with REW maybe a KH310 at reduced price could be back as an option again

 

[Vanx]

I will go through calibration wit MA 1 too really soon, is there, after calibration, a way to set both the output level and gain level to match the local mode of the KH 150? In my case I've settled on output level at 94db (is this the System Level in software?) and gain level at -15db. I didn't find any reference In the MA 1 guide screenshots.

 

[danbei]

Next days I'll attempt to calibrate the system with the MA1 software.
Wondering if the added latency will be noticeable and I would be good in setting back the speakers to "local", each time I have to play and record instruments to avoid timing issues.

To my understanding, the latency is the same whether you run a calibration with MA1 or not. The DSP is always active at least for crossover filtering and group-delay compensation. The latter is probably the step that implies the most significant latency

 

[HIFIBOY]

Is it necessary to update the KH150 firmware? What issues have been fixed so far?

 

[changer]

And thats how horrible that looks in MA-1:

MA-1 seems to use 36 dB scale, while your REW results are represented in a 50 dB scale.

 

[Elder]

Just contacted Neumann customer support to ask what their views are on controlling the volume of their speakers when using digital connection via Windows PC, and if they plan on releasing any hardware volume knob solutions to work with MA-1 (similar to Genelecs current solution with GLM). Will update thread with the response in case anyone is interested


The more I think about it, the more I realise adjusting volume via Windows will just be a huge PITA long term. Almost a big enough issue to make me consider Genelec 8340 with GLM and volume knob instead, which sucks because I believe the KH150 is a better speaker over all.

 

[Elder]

So Neumann support emailed back....

Their entire response was just describing the functionality of the MA-1 system, and how the volume can be controlled using it via the software.

They didn't respond to my query regarding their thoughts on people mostly having to use software volume controls vs hardware (with potential danger of accidently maxing volume) and if they are looking into releasing a hardware volume knob.

 

[Vanx]

So Neumann support emailed back....

Their entire response was just describing the functionality of the MA-1 system, and how the volume can be controlled using it via the software.

They didn't respond to my query regarding their thoughts on people mostly having to use software volume controls vs hardware (with potential danger of accidently maxing volume) and if they are looking into releasing a hardware volume knob.

I thought software controls are there to behave like the local controls on the back plate? So I set max output and gain via software (94db and -15db gain in my case) and leave the rest to the volume source? So my sound card. How are you feeding the speakers?

 

[Elder]

I thought software controls are there to behave like the local controls on the back plate? So I set max output and gain via software (94db and -15db gain in my case) and leave the rest to the volume source? So my sound card. How are you feeding the speakers?

According to the email Neumann has sent me, you are correct. They didn't mention any type of continuously variable volume control in MA-1, just the ability to basically set the output level to the same selections as would be available on the rear panel when using the speakers in "local" mode.

Very different to how the Genelec GLM software works as far as I understand. Genelec mention often that the way they allow the volume to be controlled in GLM is the "technically correct" way to alter the volume of a DSP speaker, as the volume is being altered somewhere towards the end of all the D/A - A/D conversions that take place. The hardware volume knob they sell controls GLM directly too, allowing minimal quality loss as I understand it. Neumann don't seem to have given much thought to how users will actually use their speakers while being fed a digital signal...

I don't own the KH150, or Genelec equivalent for that matter. Just a guy slowly putting away money for a high quality nearfield monitoring setup, using this time to make 100% sure my money is going to be spent in the best way possible. As it stands currently I think if I purchase the KH150 I will just have to run an analogue signal to them, using the Windows volume controls seems like a sure fire way to eventually accidently max out the speaker volume.... experienced that before with my main system and it was actually terrifying.

Don't think just setting the output level low in the MA-1 software will work for me either, as I need to change between very quiet to extremely loud (short periods) all the time.

 

[SmallAvatar]

Hi, everyone!
I have Adam A7X (home studio 20 sq m) and want to replace it for Adam A7V. But found out about Neuman 150. Many people like it and I'm thinking of buyinf it instead of Adam A7V. But I can't listed to them and I didn't founf the info about the soundstage. I like Adam because of super good soundstage. Will I get the same with the Neuman or not?