.... and from psychological effects.
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Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Except for the KH420, Neuman monitors are not designed for that application. I do not think any monitors are. Consider getting good quality pleasure listening speakers.
I've used my 8030c in the living with excellent results, of course had some subs and high pass on the monitors. They had no trouble getting loud as shit in this space, listening distance was 3m. Yall must wanna blow your ears out.
There is nothing wrong with using studio monitors in your living room or other areas of your home. All becuase something is labeled "nearfield" does not mean is sounds like garbage beyond a certain distance. Sound disperses based on the physis of sound. Unfortunately that is a myth that keeps getting propagated. I think many that enjoy accurate sound shoud consider studio monitors for their home, if considering bookshelf speakers. There is nothing different about them than traditional bookshelf speakers. Every speaker has a design principle and different desings happen in both studio monitors and speakers. Their sound will be based on their sound signature (accurate or signature sound) and their dispersion pattern. I would make sure whichever you choose plays loud enough for desired listening levels. If you want loud you need a larger speaker.
Nearfield means something for the pros. Nearfield means the drivers are close enough together to get the combined sound if listening at close distance. Nearfield also refers to SPL level at a given distance. So, if you want to listen at reference levels it is capable of that volume at that distance but not further away. At home one might not ever listen that loud.
For instance the KH150 and Kef R3 have similar accurate response, similar horizontal dispersion, the Kef will do better for vertical dispersion being a coaxial. I included a comparison picture. I'm sure if someone looked they could find a 2 way home speaker with similar qualities. I just picked one I knew that does not have very wide horizontal dispersion like Neuman. A Revel bookshelf for instance might have wider dispersion horizontally but be similar vertical response to the KH150 since they are both a two way speaker. They are also accurate speakers like Neumann. Some speakers have their signature sound and aren't accurate like B&W. If you prefer a signature sound then buy a speaker with a sound you prefer. If you prefer the sound of a Neumann, Genelec or other studio monitor for your home then use it.
A couple generalizations about using bookshelf sized speakers or monitors. They won't play as loud. They won't play as low with something that has bigger or multiple woofers like a tower or a main/mid-field monitor. That can be augmented with a subwoofer to play the lower frequencies. Again, if you want louder you still need bigger speakers, even with a sub. Like the above poster stated his 8030s play loud enough for him and a lot of people use sound bars with 2" woofers in them and they play loud enough for them.
In small rooms I would always recommend a sub and usually 2 or more depending on the listening area. The reason is the best location for bass in not the best location for mid/high frequencies in a home sized room. Even with large, capable speakers of playing very low you still want to crossover to a sub so you can optimize the bass. Small rooms are dominated by room modes in the bass region and good placement is required to get the bass correct. Most people don't have rooms greater than 15 meters in any dimension of a room at home where we start losing room modes and start dealing with other problems associated with large rooms like reverberration.
If one only cares about one seat like in mixing or just wants one money seat, you can use one sub. Place the sub and seat in good locations and with EQ you can have great bass. EQ is also needed with multiple subs. Multiple subs don't eliminate the need for EQ. Multiple subs allows more consistent bass response in multiple seats of the listening area. You still have to have good placement of subs and seating as well as use EQ.
Nearfield means something for the pros. Nearfield means the drivers are close enough together to get the combined sound if listening at close distance. Nearfield also refers to SPL level at a given distance. So, if you want to listen at reference levels it is capable of that volume at that distance but not further away. At home one might not ever listen that loud.
For instance the KH150 and Kef R3 have similar accurate response, similar horizontal dispersion, the Kef will do better for vertical dispersion being a coaxial. I included a comparison picture. I'm sure if someone looked they could find a 2 way home speaker with similar qualities. I just picked one I knew that does not have very wide horizontal dispersion like Neuman. A Revel bookshelf for instance might have wider dispersion horizontally but be similar vertical response to the KH150 since they are both a two way speaker. They are also accurate speakers like Neumann. Some speakers have their signature sound and aren't accurate like B&W. If you prefer a signature sound then buy a speaker with a sound you prefer. If you prefer the sound of a Neumann, Genelec or other studio monitor for your home then use it.
A couple generalizations about using bookshelf sized speakers or monitors. They won't play as loud. They won't play as low with something that has bigger or multiple woofers like a tower or a main/mid-field monitor. That can be augmented with a subwoofer to play the lower frequencies. Again, if you want louder you still need bigger speakers, even with a sub. Like the above poster stated his 8030s play loud enough for him and a lot of people use sound bars with 2" woofers in them and they play loud enough for them.
In small rooms I would always recommend a sub and usually 2 or more depending on the listening area. The reason is the best location for bass in not the best location for mid/high frequencies in a home sized room. Even with large, capable speakers of playing very low you still want to crossover to a sub so you can optimize the bass. Small rooms are dominated by room modes in the bass region and good placement is required to get the bass correct. Most people don't have rooms greater than 15 meters in any dimension of a room at home where we start losing room modes and start dealing with other problems associated with large rooms like reverberration.
If one only cares about one seat like in mixing or just wants one money seat, you can use one sub. Place the sub and seat in good locations and with EQ you can have great bass. EQ is also needed with multiple subs. Multiple subs don't eliminate the need for EQ. Multiple subs allows more consistent bass response in multiple seats of the listening area. You still have to have good placement of subs and seating as well as use EQ.
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March 2023 called, it wants it´s discussion back.
That's the great thing about forums, the info is still up and anyone can jump in revive a topic if they want.
Of course the downside are people who feel the need to police the forum forgetting it's largely a public space.
Sure, let' em read 115 pages of comments to understand the same claims have been made by the same people then debunked again and again. We have to accept the groundhog day effect might provoke an irruption of sarcasm this and there, another great thing about forums being a free speech public space.
You guys should apply for moderator positions if it bothers you so much. Otherwise, shush, let people talk.
Sorry to say but your setup isn't well placed in the room.
The setup of the display is not good for your eyes and the setup of the speakers is not good for your ears.
The display should never be placed against a window. The difference in brightness between the monitor and the window is not good. The pupils get wider while looking at the display and when you move your eyes the wider pupils face the bright light from outside.
A symmetrical placement of the monitors is much better for the image and balance of the sound. The fist reflections from the left and right speaker should arrive at the same time at your ear. With your setup stereo isn't working well. You should also use more like an equal triangle as stereo triangle.
It seems you have some space to try and change the placement. I would highly recommend to try a better placement.
Are you a moderator?
Set to ignore, buh bye troll.
Yes ...... Nearfield and narrow.
TA21
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In the Neumann KH 120 II thread, I posted about my experience trying those monitor speakers (which I normally use near field at work desk) in my main hi-fi system with a farther listening distance. (My post here.)
My thoughts are that studio monitors sound fine in that farther listening distance setting. But the room now affects the sound and frequency response, and you lose much of the "purity" that makes those speakers great near field. It doesn't mean the studio monitors sound bad. But it levels out the playing field with other hi-fi speakers. If you want the best speakers for your room, you should ideally listen to different speakers, not just studio monitor speakers, to figure out what sounds best to you. They all offer different advantages and disadvantages.
When I bought my KH 120 II, I had been into audio gear for decades, so I had a sense of what to look for or listen for in speakers, and how to think about where and how I would use them. I also listened to those speakers, plus other brands of studio monitors, before I bought them.
Unfortunately, I think many consumers today are first time buyers of speakers. They are learning about audio, as they decide what to buy. There are also fewer stores for people to listen to different speakers. People are buying blindly off the Internet, based on charts and reviews, where they may not understand what that means in real world listening experience. For example, Erin's Audio Corner on YouTube has a video on why a flat frequency response is not necessarily what you want in a room ("Your Target Curve May Be Wrong"). You can agree or disagree with that video, but it's something to learn from in becoming more educated and thoughtful about audio gear. Then some people buy their speakers, and get very defensive about any criticism of their speakers, because people want validation on their decisions.
I also feel like people start out looking at the inexpensive Neumann studio monitors, become enchanted by the very flat frequency response, then start working their way up into looking at the more expensive models and/or adding a sub, as if that brand is the only game in town for a flat frequency response. When you start going up in price, you will start seeing more hi-fi speakers that do a very flat frequency response too.
Please see above information. Thanks for the inquiry.
are you serious about that ? When yes, you probably listen to the wrong music
. What producers do a low cut at 60 Hz ?Phaeleh - Thirten
Marian Hill - Differently
Trentmoeller - Snowflake
Francine Thirteen - Queen Mary
Eprom - Honey Badger
Nicolas Jaar - Comb
And without Sub or the correct placement you sometimes dont even take notice of it because you simply cant hear it.
Btw there are tons of ,,Low Bass,, Playlists on Spotify.
Those songs you mention are outliers that have few plays.are you serious about that ? When yes, you probably listen to the wrong music
Phaeleh - Thirten
Marian Hill - Differently
Trentmoeller - Snowflake
Francine Thirteen - Queen Mary
Eprom - Honey Badger
Nicolas Jaar - Comb
And without Sub or the correct placement you sometimes dont even take notice of it because you simply cant hear it.
Btw there are tons of ,,Low Bass,, Playlists on Spotify.
when you dont put time & effort in it and just listen to chart music, you cant find special music and also not Bass Music below 60Hz. Its easy like that ;- )
Almost all music contains significant amount of low frequencies below 50Hz. The fundamental note doesn't have to be that low, you get very deep frequencies with almost all starts and stops of a sound. Even if they have a lower level compared with the fundamental note, you can hear the part of the sounds.
You can verify that with a proper wavelet or short time Fourier transformation of almost any music.
Or you can also verify that by appling a high pass to a speaker which plays deep bass. Almost all music sounds differently with it.
Yes easy to find but still quite rare.
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